I would like to know about Care Oncology Clinic competence dealing with Prostate Cancer. It started in London UK and seems they have branches in all 50 states in USA.
If any member has an experience, please share.
I find it very hard to discuss with Classical Oncologists regarding Metabolic approach and blocking feeding pathways for cancer cells. Moreover cant discuss with them regarding Prostate stem cancer cells.....
There is lot of research on starving cancer cells but no doctor wishes to express his/her opinion on that.
I ask my Scorched Earth Onco to give names of groups...
working on starving cancer cells .;; a smile and bye bye
Any body tried the cocktails suggested by COC groupe ?
Thanks
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Karmaji
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I have been on the COC protocol for only 4 months, so I could not honestly pass judgement on their competence. I believe we have a few more people in this forum that have a longer relationship with the group that may be able to give a more informed opinion. That being said I chose the COC protocol because of it's focus on blocking metabolic pathways and it's focus on the cancer stem cells. I realize it is a non- standard approach and felt I really had nothing to lose by trying. Only time will give us the answer to the question " Does it really work?". ADT therapy seems to only focus on testosterone, and that doesn't address the whole issue of this disease. I've been told it's the metastasis that is primarily responsible for our demise and ADT therapy does little in that arena. It's a leap of faith, unproven at this point, but I see very little else out there looking at this side of the disease. As far as discussing it with my MO, I haven't. I don't know if they would be receptive or not, doesn't really matter. My life, my decision. Best of luck to you in whatever path you choose.
I went to a new primary care physician I was referred to. We discussed the protocol and asked if there were any of the medications she could prescribe. She was able to give us 500 mg of metformin. I said I would get the rest of the meds from India and asked her if she would mind doing monthly testing of my husbands organs and full blood panel. She was agreeable with everything. She expressed her concern about Indian drugs. I told her I was as concerned as well which is why I was sitting in front of her. Long story short...she called our cancer specialist at Mayo and made false statements to our doctor. She didn't understand I found Care Oncology in Houston. We are now under the care of an oncologist prescribing the protocol because I was afraid to do the protocol without a doctor. This new Primary Care Doctor went off without all the information, called our doctor at Mayo Clinic and told him what we were doing. I feel very violated. Has anyone had any issues like this? I feel our rights are being infringed on for wanting to try the protocol. She made false comments to our doctor at Mayo and never asked our permission to do so.
My husband is following McLelland metabolic pathway blocking approach. He is taking metformin, dipyridamole, artovastatin, doxycycline, mebendazol, but also other supplements, so more than just COC protocol. He has Gleason 9 and T3b but did not do any treatments till now. PSA went down 18% last month, possible related to this approach (what has an effect nearly sure is metformin, because when he stopped PSA went up, when he took just 500mg it remained quite stable, 1500mg it went down)
Your doctors are right not to discuss it because the "research" is garbage. What does "garbage" mean? - it means there have been no clinical trials. Clinics like that feed on fear and the credulousness of desperate people. There is no such thing as "starving cancer cells." They will eat before you do because they are growing fast and demand food. Cancer stem cells are controversial because they are only rarely detected.
If there is no such thing as "starving " cancer cells then what are the GnRh agonist and antagonist doing by removing testosterone from the equation? Are they not in effect starving the testosterone dependent cancer cells? There will never be clinical trials regarding the use of off patent generic medications, al least not here in the U.S. No money to be made so no one is interested in spending millions of dollars in clinical trials with no hope of a positive financial outcome. I see this protocol as a no harm, no foul situation as long as the person does not eschew proven treatments. Even if they do, it is ultimately their decision. I come to this site looking for information on this disease from all viewpoints. I respect your opinion and viewpoints as you are obviously learned in this area. However, I see no reason to define those of us doing things you don't agree with as consumed with fear or being duped by some " snake oil " salesman. Hopefully this protocol will benefit my condition, if it doesn't, then my bad and shame on me. Respectfully, Dave
The question was about cancer cell metabolism - the process by which it creates energy. Testosterone activates the androgen receptor, which is an entirely different process. Before any treatment is tried, it has to be plausible. Since there is no plausible reason to believe that cancer cells can be deprived of energy by any nutritional intervention, snake oil treatments like this are implausible.
There are, in fact, government-sponsored trials of nutrition and cancer, like the MEAL RCT in the US, and the Nutrinet-Santé study in France.
Clinics like this take advantage of the lack of knowledge, the fears, and desperation of cancer patients. They sound sciency, but closer examination shows it is pseudoscience. If the OP didn't want to hear an answer, he wouldn't publicly have asked a question. If you are comfortable giving snake-oil salesmen your money, that is your business.
The question was actually about anyone's experience with the COC protocol. I agree that's it's unproven and somewhat uncharted territory. There are countless examples of medications being used for illnesses that never went through the formal clinical trial pathway, yet somehow they inexplicably turn out to be effective in treating many diseases. Your choice to embrace only scientifically proven treatments is certainly a valid approach. I choose to do otherwise without passing judgement on those who don't. Let's agree to disagree and hope that we both are fortunate enough to benefit from our choices.
There are not "countless examples." It's the exception rather than the rule, which is why it catches your attention when it happens. If I asked you to name 3, I'd wager you couldn't. That's because clinical trials have been used to evaluate treatments since 1747 (citrus for scurvy).
My problem with "unscientific approaches" is not about personal choice, it is about public advocacy on sites like theirs and this. If you want to believe that baking soda and molasses will cure you - that's your right - but when you advocate for it publicly, you have to demonstrate safety at the very least and efficacy as well. Otherwise, you are part of the problem, not the solution.
I do believe that doing something, anything, is better than doing nothing. That's because of the psychological lift it provides to wrest a feeling of control, when control over your own body has been so harshly taken from you. And also because the placebo effect is real. Even voodoo medicine is better than avoidance.
I go for clinical studies....But they are based on statistical approach.
Try this in blind trail and get some results....
But I may be among 20 oe 30 percent failed guys.... which makes me 100 %....
Like ADT works but not for me.....like snake oil....vision....
I ask my ONCO he says only God knows for how long it will work....
Then come age old human knowledge ...not done thru mega bucks...
All info about diet is based on grand mother knowledge.....
It varies from one land to other land....and it is highly reliable.
So let us add diet therapy as second tool.....
So let us add exercise and healthy living as third tool ... no big dollar study is necessary....
Then comes study by researchers in their labs ... well documented...
Examples are many...
Metaformin, Statin, artimisin, all Ayurveda drugs, and many others
We have to attack cancel cells with all our means.....
Even the mental approach of staying upbeat....
Right whole cancer therapy is middle age...
Kill cancer cell by killing all and then pray....
My RO says at least we prolong life till you die of something else but not of cancer..... A laugh together
Whole approach to cancer is wrong....
It is basically Gene mutation and soon we will approach cancer thru targeted gene therapy..... I wont be there ...
but no body will die of cancer......thru gene blockings....a very simple approach if Big pharmas do not block it......
Like we know that Meat is worst enemy of human health and also of environment.....we do not these stupid clinical studies.....
So let us employ all tool to deal with cancer cells....they are part of my good cells.... there should be a way to make them lovable...
As of now we block their food pathways.... they get angry and find more food path ways with more agressive mind set...
Actually purpose of cancer cells is to kill the food giver to suicide itself......... a strange behavior...of a Jihadi.....
Let us work together to seek all pathways... not only big pharma mafia.....
I wonder why clinical studies involve so much financial load.......
Just to pay fat cats for doing statistics.....
Why not you and me get together....we need no money......
It is mystery who needs the money for testing a drug......
Whole system stinks......and is inhuman......
Doctors have become victims of this financial world and we as patients are taken for free lunch...
Example.... I ask the secretay to get a meeting with RO.... she says he is too busy.....
I say I am talking of my life and I am paying him and I get answer from you you that he is too busy.....doing what... ????
It has to change ....this system going wrong.....
Doctors have become soul less..... their behaviour is so inhuman, under fear of being sued... stressed ... machine like....connected to their screen....dare not listen to patient about supplementary approach.....
This has to change and I am the actor... not the doc.....
Now thru Net, I may access all it needs to know.....
Let us start a new approach towards patient care.....
may be bypass robotised and money trapped docs.....
While "starving cancer cells" is indeed a wide hoaxy pseudoscientific statement it would be unreasonable to call cancer stem cells (CSC) theory controversial. It was 10-15 years ago but since then there's been a lot of research and accumulated evidence in favor of it. It's true, clearly defining and identifying them is still a subject of ongoing debate but not many in the scientific community would deny their existence and role in the cancer progression. Such stem-like cells occupy a specific niche in the tumor microenvironment and are responsible for self-reneweal, tumorogenesis, metastasis and eventual disease re-occcurence. That's why so much attention lately is focused on methods of identification and eradication of CSCs. In many cases, cells with expression of CD44/CD133 (and some other markers in different cancer types) are found to have stem-like properties. They are quiescent (not dividing rapidly), have very effective multidrug resistance (MDR) mechanisms, high resistance to oxidative stress and multiple DNA repair pathways making them unsusceptible to the conventional cytotoxic and radiation therapies. Here's a good summary on the current state of CSCs understanding in prostate cancer:
It is certainly controversial. In the citation you provided, it says "a single “pluripotent” CSC should be able to regenerate a tumor that histo‐structurally recapitulates the parent (patient) tumor that consists of all different cancer cell types. No such a CSC has ever been reported in any tumor."
In 2016, for example:
"A recent theory focuses on the role Cancer Stem Cells (CSCs) in driving tumorigenesis and disease progression. This theory hypothesizes that a population of the tumor cell with similar functional and phenotypic characteristics as normal tissue stem cells are responsible for formation and advancement of many human cancers. "
The controversy is not about whether prostate cancer stem cells exist - they undoubtedly do. But efforts to find them (and researchers have looked hard) have determined that they are rare among cell types, and most men with PC do not seem to have them in their cancers. Now, it may be that their low incidence makes them hard to find, or it may be that they are there in a subset of men with PC. If they were there in all men with PC, RT would never work and HT would be pointless. So far, we don't have a clue as to how to identify the men who have them vs those that don't, let alone address the heterogeneity of stem cell types:
"Although the existence of CSCs has been well established for specific cancers, it is clear that the CSC model does not account for functional heterogeneity in all tumors."
I think we both express the same just saying with different level of scope and tolerance. Controversial is not the theory in whole but its parts that being worked out as we speak. Definitely, there's no clear black/white type of the deal in cancer cell biology, things are pretty murky there.
Everyone here respects your right to do whatever treatment you deem best for yourself. At the same time, it is critical for the rest of us on this forum to hear the good bad and ugly about those treatments to help us make our own informed decisions . For that I thank Tall Allen for Giving us the other side of the coin.
Karmaji: It was clear to me that you wanted to hear about people's experiences with the COC protocol but the conversation somehow devolved into a debate about the pros/cons and the science/pseudoscience behind it. I've been on the COC protocol for almost a year. Those at COC have treated me with more respect and compassion than I have received from most conventional doctors. I was originally diagnosed in 2012 with Gleason 9, Stage IV, non-metastatic PCa. After several short cycles of ADT, whole-body and local hyperthermia, high dose Vitamin C, aspirin, Pectasol-C, and other non-conventional treatments I opted in 2015 for IMRT of the prostate and pelvic nodes. That was also my last dealings with ADT. At the time I began the COC protocol in late 2018 my PSA was 0.22. It spiked 3 months later to 0.44 and then dropped 3 months later to 0.18. Conventional treatments like ADT made me feel awful and negatively impacted my quality of life. I've had no ill side effects from the COC protocol. I have many HIV+ friends who are surviving on a drug cocktail with few side effects and that has made their disease manageable. In my case, I believe the COC drug cocktail is working in a similar fashion. The 'science' behind conventional and COC approaches is less important to me than my quality of life and I will not argue the 'science' here. You invited people to share their experiences and this has been mine. I hope you find value in it.
I have been to COC in Harley Street, motivated by the Jane McLelland book. The wife of one of the Dr founders of COC had a stage 4 cancer diagnosis, and by similar but independent thinking to Jane effected a similar cancer recovery situation by similar methodology. The guy I spoke to was very knowledgeable, a medical Dr and Biochemist. They are achieving good results, in many cases far exceeding life extension provided by conventional expensive medication and without side effects. They can not be making much money out of this. The cost is about £800 per year to cover the Dr time in follow up 4x a year. They are genuinely knowledgeable people with a genuine cause. I think you should RUN to your nearest centre, or at least copy the protocol in addition to whatever SOC you choose. This is in effect a clinical trial, admittedly without the rigor or placebo nonsense. The fast growing cancers like gliomas have apparently responded well. We will have to be more patient. A clinical trial not been completed doesn't mean a treatment won't work. It means a clinical trial has not been done. We can't hang around and wring our hands. We are an endangered species. Some people are cured or greatly extended by this methodology. I hope I am one of them, and hope is a Good Thing....
We just signed up! Theres too many people that are having good results in my opinion not to try and I just don't see much downside. It's fairly inexpensive to me and can be combined with other treatments And I admit! I am desperate to keep my husband around so I'll try some nontoxic snake oil please!
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Results from oncology today post chemo
Zytiga and stomach pain; pain relief cocktails 
Looking for oncology recommendations in Los Angeles and surrounding cities.
FYI: Be careful when considering RX 
