Just wondering about who might be using Metformin to fight their Prostate Cancer.
Metformin and Prostate Cancer - Advanced Prostate...
Metformin and Prostate Cancer
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TomNew62
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Most of us.
🙋🏽♂️
Started MetforminER 500mg twice a day about 3 months ago as part of the COC treatment protocol. Hoping it will head off the problem of insulin sensitivity and potential diabetes risk that long term ADT therapy may cause. along with upsetting the metabolic pathway of the cancer stem cells that the COC oncologist prescribe it for. A little nausea at the start but having no other issues. I think it's worth a shot providing nothing precludes you from taking it safely. Another way to beat the beast!
My husband, yes. now 1000mg, before 2000mg.
Best info from small randomized clinical trials is "no effect." But the trials are underpowered to detect a small effect.
When added to ADT:
"This study detected no impact of MET addition to ADT on the risk of metabolic syndrome and no additional anti-tumor effects."
ascopubs.org/doi/10.1200/JC...
When added to chemo:
"the addition of metformin to docetaxel chemotherapy does not improve PSA50, objective response rates, mPFS, or OS. "
urotoday.com/conference-hig...
These kinds of counterintuitive findings confuse the heck out of me...... How is it that a drug that is often used as a first line treatment FOR insulin sensitivity issues can have NO effect for those on ADT..... OK.. I can grasp that it might not assist with PSA.... but insulin sensitivity.... I don't get it.
The men in that study were not diabetic at the start (as they have been on most studies of metformin to date). "Control of hyperinsulinemia related to diabetes by MET does not necessarily imply MET has a similar action on hyperinsulinemia due to ADT."
Well THAT is certainly disappointing!!! Are you aware of anything that does assist with the potential hyperinsulemia related to ADT??
I suppose that weight reduction through caloric restriction and increased exercise might help. A friend of mine reversed his metabolic syndrome following bariatric surgery.
Throwing in a caveat that diabetes is linked to fat in the *pancreas*. While that usually aligns with overall body mass, it's it always the case.
My brother in law bikes 100 miles a day and still has Type II.
Also, TA, the effects from bariatric surgery may be tied to changes in microbiome, not reductions in body mass. Super interesting research.
I use the supplement "berberine" which is natural Metformin and does the same thing.
I am. Many men are. Metformin is cheap, safe, and there is ample data suggesting multiple pathways for interfering with prostate cancer.
There are risks in every choice. The trick is to balance the negative and positive outcomes so that you aren't likely to be hurt. With metformin, the risk balance looks like this:
Chance of hurting you: very small. You can always stop or adjust the dose if you experience bad side effects.
Chance of helping: unknown, but clinicians, the people who actually treat cancer, consistently report that men who take Metformin do better. They also report that the longer you take it the greater the benefit. It doesn't cure the cancer, but it may slow it down, or slow metastasis, or other things. No, this isn't a random, double-blind, placebo controlled trial. This is professionals who treat cancer every day reporting on what they see. Both kinds of evidence are useful and valid.
Cost is a few dollars a month. Why not try it?
Tom, I have apparently very slow growing recurrent prostate cancer, which showed itself in 2015, 39 months after having a robotic-assisted laparoscopic prostatectomy in 2012. My PSA is 0.54, and my surgical pathology showed Gleason 4+3=7, T2c, clear margins, no lymph node involvement, no metastasis. All of the indications are that I am on the borderline between a low-risk and high-risk recurrence. I've been taking 750 mg of extended release Metformin continuously, twice a day for about 2 years. I got started with it when I entered a clinical trial to investigate it's effectiveness at a hospital on Long Island, NY. I haven't seen a report of the results of the trial yet. I doubt it will show anything startling. After a couple of false starts, I found a primary care physician who is willing to prescribe this off-label use of inexpensive Metformin. Taking it is one of many things I do that might help slow the growth and spread of the cancer, and is very unlikely to be harmful, assuming this biochemical recurrence represents actual growing cancer tumor(s). I also have a "fairly sensible", but not extreme diet, get good exercise at least 3 days a week, take a handful of carefully researched supplements that are not sourced in China and are independently tested, and take a statin, and try to do diet and lifestyle things to reduce systemic inflammation. None of these things will slow or stop prostate cancer, but they are relatively easy and inexpensive to do, and some of them might slow it down. My quality of life is very good. So, I'm going to continue to do all of them, including Metformin. I also just got an F-18 DCFPyL radiotracer PET scan through another clinical trial. That is one of 2 or 3 scans that has a roughly 50% chance of showing any tumors at my low PSA. I should get the results in a few days.
Your case is similar to mine, except that after my March 2012 RP, my PSA stayed undetectable until it started rising quickly from .17 in early 2017 to just over 1 in June, 2018. In July of 2018, I got the same scan you did. It found PCa in three nodes. I went through 40 radiation treatments starting in September 2018 and ending November 2018. My treatment plan also included 4 three-month Lupron shots starting in August of 2018. My PSA was undetectable by the time the rad treatments ended and was still that way as of early May of this year. I’m hoping it stays that way as of my next scheduled PSA late next month. If so, docs will stop the Lupron shots unless PSA starts rising again. The rad treatments included giving special attention to those three PCa infested nodes. Docs tell me they would expect the better rad targeting made possible by the latest scans will result in better outcomes for patients with cases like mine but there is not enough data available yet to confirm that. I don’t see the topic of the relationship of stress levels
to PCa discussed on this forum but in addition to following a good diet and regular exercise, my oncologist told
me that minimizing stress is also important to keeping this disease in check. I then thanked him for the good excuse to retire!
Anyway, good luck to you.
How exactly IS it that ones stress level is going to increase the growth of Pca?? Clearly it is always better to be unstressed than stressed but it has become such a ubiquitous recommendation that to me it is almost meaningless at this point. This disease comes with it's own sources of stress some of which are notoriously difficult to control.....who needs the added stress of being told that they need to remain _ unstressed_ so as not to promote the advancement of their disease.....
Apparently stress promotes glutocorticoid production. I’m no scientist by any means but the article at the link below talks about the tie in between gluts and prostate cancer. There is some debate about whether gluts promote or hinder PCa (friend or foe). My doc must believe they’re the foe in my case. And yes, when you’ve got PCa, you’re going to have more stress. That said, if that stress is not only bad for your general health, but on top of that has a specific adverse impact on your PCa and can undermine diet, exercise and supplement routines, then maybe you have to ask what more you can do in your life to reduce it. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
I think keeping blood sugar and insulin under good control is obligatory for people in our position. I have been taking it (2g/d) for well over 10 years. Long term less aggressive cancer? Can't say, but the thought has occurred. I reckon the most useful effect is insulin control.
Yes, been on the COC protocol since April this year, which includes Metformin.
I have been on Firmagon for fifteen months now, my post prostatectomy PSA was 2.07 and that fell to below the limit of detection in less than three months and it has stayed there.
However my blood pressure rose dangerously and was measured at 210/150 at one point.
I am on a partly self prescribed cocktail of 20mg Avorstatin, 300 mgIrbesartan, 10mg Amlodipine and two times500mg Metformin to control my cholesterol which is slightly elevated, Irbesatan and Amlodipine for the blood pressure and Metformin for a slightly elevated blood glucose respectively.
Are they doing anything to the prostate cancer which may still exist after 66 Gy of radiation and fifteen months of Firmagon?
Who knows but if a few more of the little cancer cells die because of that cocktail, all well and good.
Just got to choose the point at which I stop the Firmagon, nineteen months sounds good to me although the urologist would give me another year if he had his way!
Started with Metformine 2x 1000mg and Bicalutamide 50mgx1 about two months ago.
My story: 2002 LDR Brachyterapy, 2006 salvage radiotherapy 45Gy with Bicalutamide 150mgx1 for two years. Since 2018 biochemical recurrence. Next month I have psa test.
I think that maybe is good idea if I add another (off label) drug, Fenbendazole.
Do you have any experiences, ideas?
Hi Donits,
I just added Fenbendazole (1 packet sprinkled over a bowl of oatmeal or shredded wheat) 3 days on/4 days off) a month nth ago. Too early to tell if it is having any effect on my PSA. I go back to my Mayo M.O. in mid-August for my 3 month lab work & visit. I’ll know more at that time.
Best wishes to you on your journey! 😎🏌️⛳️
Hi Litlerny,
Thank you very much for your information. I would to ask you if you have any side effects, what others drugs you take together with Fenbendazole? How many milligrams is 1 packed, I can buy in a pharmacy "Axilur" drug for dogs with 250mg pills.
Best wishes to you.
No side effects other than (jokingly) lifting my leg to pee and chasing the mailman. 🐶😎
I never heard of Axilur. If it’s not fenbendazole it might be a different drug. Fenbendazole comes in 2 brand names, Panacur-C and Safe-guard 4. Both are available over the counter and online. They are roughly the same price. Right now Wal Mart online has Safe-guard 4 on sale for $5.18 a box (which contains 3 one gram packets. Each packet contains 22.2% (222 mg/g) of fenbendazole. As far as I know, this is the standard dose for human use for PCa. There are a couple other guys in here that are using it. You can Google Fenbendazole, Panacur-C, and Safe-guard 4 to get more information about its use in cancer patients.
All the best to you. 😎
Hi Litlerny,
Thank you for your info. Axilur is made in Finland by finnish small Company Intervet Oy/MSD Animal Health. The price is: 10 pills 250mg 11,23 Euro, 20 pills 250mg 18.82Euro. (over the counter in pharmacy and online) 1 pill=250 mg Fenbendazole. I do not know which drug is better.
Do you take some others drugs or supplements like Joe T. (vitam. E succinate, Cannabis oil...?) In Finland we have BNCT-treatment at the moment only for head and neck cancers, but maybe next year also for prostate cancer, will see.
Best greetings
Hi Donits 😎
If Axilur contains fenbendazole I’m guessing (and it’s only a guess) that it is the equivalent of Safeguard-4 or Panacur C. Both Safeguard 4 and Panacur C have the same dosage of fenbendazole. Both come in easy to use 3-packet single dose pouches of granular fenbendazole.
I sprinkle a packet of Safeguard 4 in with my morning oatmeal or shredded wheat, or occasionally mix it in with Egg Beaters. I take a capsule of Vitamin E Succinate with it (along with my other morning pills).
Like a couple of other guys in here I take it 3 days on and 4 days off.
Everything I read in ncbi, Medscape, cancertretmentresearch, etc. website articles refer specifically to fenbendazole or menendazole. Also, as far as I know, the only studies currently or recently being done for repurposing canine antihelmitic drugs are using fenbendazole and, to a lesser extent mebendazole, and no human clinical trials are currently being done on either drug for prostate cancer. There is a clinical trial in progress on mebendazole for pediatric brain tumors.
Have a great day! Off to the driving range here 🏌️⛳️
Hi Tom, I’m taking metformin for diabetes’s, my prostate cancer has still increased in size since 2012. So the metfornim hasn’t helped my prostate cancer one bit.
Some good posts and advice in this thread.
I suspect that the Metformin is not a cancer killer itself, but it does lower sugar spikes which will give cancer a growth spurt. I am very allergic to that drug family, but no problems with Galvus/Jalra (valdagliptin) 50mg daily. This also has the advantage that there are no real lows (like 3.4) that one can get with Metformins, and that has you reaching for "sugar" before you fall over. I would advise all Pca victims to take some sugar medication (even if the numbers are usually "normal") if there are sugar readings above 8 after a meal (or simply being stupid!). It's those spikes that count!
Medications play havoc with blood sugar and blood pressure. Docetaxel turned me into an instant diabetic (>14.5) that took 18 months before I saw normal levels again. Pulse and BP was all over the place as well for a long time.
I see posts of Blood Pressure like 210/107. This is an emergency and well into stroke territory if you do not have good arteries and heart. Here is what I do when I see the veins on my hand blowing up ("Hot flushes" can also be a sign of higher BP) :
Breath deeply. Relax. Some medications slow (or even stop) normal breathing, so a common cause and a quick fix. If you stop breathing while asleep, do something about that.
Sip a tot of brandy if the above did not work. The idea is to get the alcohol vapour into your lungs. This can start working in 2 minutes and should drop BP by 20 points.
Take 5mg Amlodipine. This starts acting within a few minutes.
An overlooked problem is the Potassium balance. The "normal" range gets a lot narrower with the medications, so one has to be careful to not go too low or high (my safe range is 3.8 to 4.2). Leg cramps, missing heart beats, and shallow breathing are warning signs. If you live in a hot area and sweat a lot, you are almost guaranteed to be short (suggest 60-80mg a day). IV treatments are usually in a 0.9% sodium salt solution, so that can also cause a problem if not matched with some potassium to balance (I use 600mg).
LeeLiam in reply to
Years ago I switched my salt to Morten's Lite Salt. It is half sodium chloride and half potassium chloride. My sodium and potassium numbers have been excellent after switching.
in reply to LeeLiam
You are lucky as you are probably in the USA and can get your salt off the shelf at a reasonable price. By the time it arrives overseas, the price means there has been a load of gold dust added. In much of the world, Potassium is a prescription item not usually available in convenient 80mg tablets that are on the shelf in the USA. Sea salt is one solution, but getting the real thing (with about 3% potassium) is not easy ("Sea Salt" is usually missing the potassium) unless you make it yourself from sea water. The net result is a few billion people that are chronically over-salting their food with sodium, and no potassium (other than a little in the food). Millions suffer from irregular heart beats as a result (with expensive fixes!) and many more have swollen ankles with water retention and electrolyte imbalances - and mystery diseases that have a simple cure. For those with Pca, it is vital to have as healthy body as possible, or those little bastards will grow and thrive. It is the immune system that kills cancer cells - not the medications (most of which actually trash the immune system to a greater or lessor extent and make the problem worse!). I have not found any affordable medication (radiation excepted) that actually kills Pca cells. They just stunt the growth. Please prove me wrong! Thus most of us are (once started) trapped into using conventional treatments which cannot be stopped as the weakened immune system is not strong enough to take over. Some get lucky and escape (and some find the problem early enough), but most if us battle on walking a thin line to keep going with some Quality of Life. This forum has some excellent suggestions on how to do so.
Litlerny in reply to
Sea salt is also missing iodine, an ingredient in Morton’s iodized salt.
GeorgesCalvez in reply to
My blood pressure was well into horribly scary territory and my urologist did not give a monkey's.
I would say that you have to be proactive; measure your blood pressure and maybe your glucose or insist on analyses and positive action.
On my current regime I have got it well down and it is now around 140/90 in the morning, 130/90 in the afternoon and 110/80 in the evening, so I am happy with that.
Blood sugar is well into the green as is my cholesterol.
I think the critical thing when talking of these things is to specify your units, glucose in particular is tricky with at least three measures being used.
That's odd. Until I fired him, my urologist always said to be sure and pick up my free monkey's on the way out.
My urologist is now sitting by the door marked Way Out, I have a new one lined up for September! 
I started taking Metformin about 2 1/2 to 3 years ago. It was not prescribed by my PCa MO, but by my family doc due to elevated A1c and blood glucose levels. To that end, it has helped keep my blood sugar levels lower, and closer to normal. It has also made me much more aware of the impact of dietary sugar, and eliminating as much as I can from my diet. I don’t know if there is a way to really quantify the effect of it on my PCa. Hopefully, it is helping. If so, great! If not, at least I am keeping another serious medical issue in check. I haven’t noticed any side effects whatsoever from the Metformin. I currently take a 500 mg tablet 3X a day.
After 4 years on ADT (6 month Lupron shots and, up until about a month ago, daily bicalutamide) my PSA is now starting to creep up above undetectable. Currently 0.22. T is still <7, my one pelvic bone tumor has disappeared, and I’m otherwise asymptomatic. Other than fatigue (I take more naps than I used to) I feel pretty good, all things considered.
Has Metformin helped keep things from getting worse? Don’t know, but it hasn’t hurt, and it has helped me keep the blood glucose issues in check.
Best wishes to you on your journey. 😎🏌️⛳️
I’ve been taking it for almost 5 years per Snuffy Myers for anti cancer activity and to avoid metabolic syndrome. All of my other doctors have no problem with it including Dr. Sartor and two other very good local oncologists. There are some very good YouTube videos out there by Myers discussing it’s use if you are interested.
Ed
This trial shows a benefit for Metformin:
sciencedirect.com/science/a...
Metformin is tested in the STAMPEDE trial Arm K now. In this article it says:
Encouraging nonrandomised phase 2 data for castrate-resistant CaP demonstrated that 36% of patients treated with metformin were progression-free at 3 mo. When compared to baseline values, the prostate-specific antigen (PSA) doubling time was prolonged in 52% of cases, and an overall clinical benefit was observed in 46%
europeanurology.com/article...
Here is an old PCAF thread discussing repurposing Metformin:
I'm on 3000mg/day Metformin with Lipitor/Casodex. Back on ADT after an 18 month "holiday" Saw this article: renalandurologynews.com/hom...
Great new study. Further supporting the position of several of the best oncologists in the country and Canada,
I am
I was on Metformin for some years before Dx of fully metasized PCa while PSA had only slowly progressed over time. I voluntarily stopped it after PCa Dx mostly because of size of pills and while it likely did help with stage 2 Diabetes I wanted to reduce the number of medications I took and at that time I wasn't concerned that Diabetes would kill me. I also had a number of "side effects" that seemed to get worse over time. So, Metformin certainly did not stop or prevent MY PCa. I'm not currently a fan.
As you research more about drugs and lifestyle to PREVENT cancer you will discover that TREATING cancer requires a whole different outlook and drug chemical interaction to be effective. Don't be lulled into reading about a drug treatment for PREVENTING cancer and thinking it is perfect for TREATING YOUR cancer.
2Dee
Wow, lots of response to your inquiry. My local urologist dissuaded me from taking Metformin but my doc at MD Anderson felt otherwise. His thought was that until proven otherwise, Metformin might be helpful, was cheap, had few side effects so why not? I take a number of things that “might” be helpful and I have just found out the Mets in my lungs are shrinking so I’m sticking with them.
Best of luck to you!
Not me........... just
Chocolate chip ice cream (two scoops) three if the wife is tied up with duct tape.
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
J-o-h-n Sunday 06/30/2019 4:55 PM DST
I am, and I've been dealing with a challenge that I think I've traced back to MET. I'm stage 4, Gleason 9(5+4), diagnosed about a year ago. Current therapies are Zytiga (generic) + Degarelix injections, Metformin (500mg twice / day), prednisone, and dutasteride. Treatment's been going very well - strong initial response, and latest labs have PSA at undetectable / "<0.01". (Woot!)
The challenge I've been working on has to do with road cycling. I rode 2,000 road miles last year, and cycling helps me stay alive - both from a physical and mental standpoint. I've had problems this year on rides where about 15min in, I'm exhausted, as if I've just floored out my blood sugar. I've experimented with different eating patterns before and during rides, to no real help. The only thing I've found that helps is skipping my MET doses 12-24hrs before my rides. Doing that, it feels like my limiting factor is training - both legs and cardio - and no energy / glucose.
Any similar experiences w/ MET and endurance sports? I've been able to find very little useful info in my searching.
Thanks, and best of luck to you all in your journey!
As an update, with my MO's consent, I've dropped more and more metformin from my regime, and my riding is pretty much back to normal. I had a 118mi week last week, and was able to go hard when I wanted to and climb well! It's good to be back to legs and cardio being my limiting factor rather than some drug-based limitation.
I ride a recumbent bike 12 miles every day and I have energy loss from the metformin. I want to build my endurance back up to do 80-100 mile rides on the weekend.
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