Metformin: after so many positive art... - Advanced Prostate...
Metformin: after so many positive articles: ASCO no help with docetaxel for mCRPCa
That’s a bummer. How many guys here in metformin are gonna stop after this study ? Love your thoughts
Schwah
"Pujalte Martin said 66% of 50 patients treated with metformin achieved the primary endpoint of a 50% or greater response in PSA levels compared to 63% of 49 patients treated with docetaxel alone (P=0.94), a non-significant finding.
Progression free survival with metformin was a median of 7.4 months; with placebo, it was 5.6 months. Overall survival was a median of 24.6 months if the patients were on metformin and a median of 19.6 months if the patients were on placebo. Neither secondary outcome result was statistically significant, he said."
Not particularly intuitive or dispositive to me.
I have no GI problems. Metformin is good for all that ails you.
So far I am sticking with it, my daily aspirin, and my fish oil.
Dr Myers started me on metformin. I will continue. His database of outcomes from several thousand patients (my estimate), well managed and analyzed is in general more important to me than these random studies which appear. Just my view.
Dr. Myers started me on Metformin about five years ago. I continue to take it now as my primary treatment for type 2 diabetes.
Mike P.
"The addition of MET has no meaningful clinical benefit in this setting."
I don't think we should read more into the finding.
Also at ASCO:
abstracts.asco.org/239/Abst...
"Results from a phase Ib/II study of enzalutamide and metformin in men with castration resistant prostate cancer (CRPC)."
-Patrick
Just added to PubMed today:
"Phase II, Multicenter, Randomized Trial of Docetaxel plus Prednisone with or Without Cediranib in Men with Chemotherapy-Naive Metastatic Castrate-Resistant Prostate Cancer." [1]
"LESSONS LEARNED:
The negative results are consistent with the negative results of large phase III trials in which docetaxel plus antiangiogenic agents were used in patients with metastatic castrate-resistant prostate cancer (mCRPC).The negative data underscore that, despite a sound biological rationale and supportive early-phase clinical results, adding antiangiogenic agents to docetaxel for mCRPC is a great challenge."
Has anything ever been shown to improve Docetaxel effects?
-Patrick
Who cares....all I can say is when I added metformin to my DES it dropped my PSA even more and there it remains......not really a fan of Mary Ellen Taplin. She wanted to put me on Avastin back in 2007 when I went for a second opinion.....no thanks
Good to know. Thanks
As Schwah so eloquently said, “Bummer!” After reading the summary report in Physicians Weekly, I’ve decided to immediately stop taking Metformin, and start taking Placebo, the other “drug” referenced in the study, which as far as I can see (without reading glasses) is a repurposed drug initially developed to treat intractable hypochondria. OK...OK...just kidding there. Don’t take me too seriously. Everything I say is a lie...and that’s the truth 😉.
I’ve been on Metformin for about two years now....not prescribed by my oncologist, but by my family doc for type 2 diabetes. I’m going to stay on it. I have no way to quantify how much (if any) it has helped keep my PCa in check, but it has helped me keep my blood glucose levels down near normal. That in itself is enough reason to take it. If it helps with the cancer, too, well that’s just a bonus. However, I know it hasn’t helped lower my golf handicap any. 🏌️⛳️😎
Have a blessed 🙏 and beautiful day everyone. Life is good.
your "lie" <==== That's your problem in golf .... and that's the truth.....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Tuesday 06/04/2019 6:53 PM DST
Sounds like you went off ( and Ill advised at best ) your dog worm meds and probably didn’t even remember to eat the 2 bones that come with it. See what happens ....
Old golfers never die they just loose their balls .... us PCa guys always die and we loose our ball’s too. Go figure. 🤪🤪🤪
The "lie angle" of any golf club is the angle formed between the center of the shaft and the sole, or ground line, of the club when the club is soled in its proper playing position (as at address). ... Lie angle is a factor that affects the accuracy of golf shots.
BTW I'm more into eating pussy food.
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Wednesday 06/05/2019 5:40 PM DST
I knew that about the lie ( which would be a lie ) my wife likes to watch golf on TV because she likes to see men hitting their balls around a park like setting. Myself I never play golf now, xtandi put so much weight on me I can’t see my balls anymore. It’s hard to address my club as well. I have to get my wife to hit my balls for me now. Fore !! And a hole in one ! 🏌️♂️🤦♀️ 🤐
You are doing exactly what I have for some time. Obviously since placebos are used in every drug test they must be good. Right ? I started taking regular placebos and got such great results that now I take the 3X placebos. They are supposed to do nothing for you and they worked great, but now that I’m on the 3X ones they are doing 3X more of nothing. The results speak for themselves.... of course you’d want to discuss this with your onc doc first just in case. I’m sure he’d approve plus give you that handy referral to add a competent psych doc to your treatment team as well. Imagine the kewl “ real “ pills you’ll get from him. More is better. 👍👍👍👍 😱 🤪
Oh yea .... don’t forget that placebos come in many flavors and colors and especially 5X and 10X sizes. Something to keep in reserve just in case you might need 10X results. 🤪 🙈 🤪🤪🤪
Also: I’ve discovered that if you take a little bit of foil from your aluminum foil hat ( not too much tho ) and carefully wrap your placebos in the foil .... they seem to work much better shielded from the “ rays “ . Remember to remove the foil before ingesting ... just say’in. 🤫🤔😱👽🤪🤪🤪.
You're a scream!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Wednesday 06/05/2019 7:35 PM DST
If my understanding is correct, Metformin helps ward off metabolic syndrome for those of us on ADT, so there are other reasons to be taking it. I’ve been taking it for over 5 years now per Myers, so far so good, I’ll continue taking it.
Ed
Once prostate cancer is metastatic castration resistant what does work???
Again I'll mention Dr. Klotz who when speaking at a urologist's conference had a graph charting a patient's continual PSA rise as his prostate cancer was I believe, Dr. Klotz described it as, hormone resistant. Drugs had failed to keep his PSA in check. The patient began dosing himself 3X daily with hot sauce. His PSA didn't decrease but stabilized until the patient stopped the "sauce"! The patient's PSA resumed it's rise at the same rate as it had been on before he went on the "sauce"!
There is a video on YouTube and I have posted the link before. Who would have thought that "hot sauce" would even stabilize PSA when Lupron and all the rest fail?
Metformin used early is a preventative measure. The idea is to prevent. Isn't that the reasoning behind Metformin and the other supplements and so forth we engage in such as diet? Discontinue using some very helpful things because of a study? Have any studies been done on men who have stabilized the progression of their cancer by lifestyle changes, drugs and supplements who then just discontinue those to see what happens?
Currumpaw
I agree, was just reporting. My husband is also on metformin and we still think it blocks a pathway.
The study is a distraction and of very limited value.
No one has ever made serious claims that metformin cures cancer. The basis for spending precious research dollars to study the short-term benefits of combining metformin with a standard chemotherapy agent are not explained.
But the title of the article gives it away.
Metformin No Help in Advanced Prostate Cancer
(bold emphasis added)
That is an incredibly broad, sweeping claim. The research and the researchers said no such thing.
"No help" covers many things, and advanced prostate cancer is a condition that many in this group have been living with for far longer than the 2 or so years covered by this study.
The real motivation becomes clear when one contrasts what the researchers said to what the medical establishment mouthpiece concludes:
The research found
(T)he treatment with metformin did not result in any cases of hypoglycemia or in the development of unexpected adverse events.
The mouthpiece lied about this and revealed the real motivation:
(T)hese data should reduce off-label use of metformin. Given the high rate of Grade 1 and Grade 2 toxicities with metformin which approached 70% in the context of chemotherapy, this type of treatment is not innocuous.” (bold emphasis added)
No toxicities are welcome, but grade 1 is the least serious: Mild, with mild or no symptoms; no interventions required.
Grade 2 isn't much worse: Moderate; minimal intervention indicated; some limitation of activities
biooncology.com/clinical-tr...
His invocation of "the context of chemotherapy" is risible. Grade 1 and 2 toxicities in chemotherapy are all but inevitable and are largely dismissed by the medical establishment. We recently had a discussion of about offering simple cold caps to chemo patients to prevent hair loss and peripheral neuropathy, permanent nerve damage. As one poster noted, the clinic concluded that this was "too much trouble."
Grade 3, 4, and 5 toxicities (Severe, Life Threatening, Death) are common in the context of chemotherapy. Yet metformin gives some people loose stools or diarrhea so it must be stopped!
Give me a break.
This hatchet job was based on a false premise, that metformin would have benefits in the final stages of a fatal cancer.
The truth is that metformin has been shown to have many beneficial long term effects:
Diabetics on metformin tend to live longer than a matched population of non-diabetics. Nearly 15% longer.
Bannister CA, Holden SE, Jenkins-Jones S, et al. Can people with type 2 diabetes live longer than those without? A comparison of mortality in people initiated with metformin or sulphonylurea monotherapy and matched, non-diabetic controls. Diabetes Obes Metab. 2014;16(11):1165-73
A search of PubMed for metformin and cancer reveals dozens of articles exploring and documenting metformin's effects via multiple pathways against the initiation and progression of cancer.
Every MO I have talked to recommends metformin, and wholeheartedly commended me for already starting it. They all said that metformin doesn't cure cancer, it rarely drives down PSA, but their patients on metformin do better than those who don't take it. They also noted that the longer the patient took metformin, the better the protective effects.
These are clinicians reporting on their direct experience over years and decades.
Whatever the motivation of the research, this study will be used by control-freak physicians to deny patients' perfectly reasonable requests for a safe, inexpensive drug that has few risks and many potential benefits.
If you want to be bullied by a people peddling $30,000 doses of incredibly toxic chemo that rarely helps and almost inevitably fails if it does produce a temporary benefit, be my guest. This transparently hostile effort to de-legitimize the use of an inexpensive drug with an extremely large, extremely long history of safety and effectiveness is insulting and symptomatic of the ethical rot within the cancer industry.
