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Advanced Prostate Cancer
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After Defending Curcumin How About Quercetin: Next Up

Before the Nay-Sayers bounce, please read--->www.ncbi.nim.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6001031<

Quercetin is a phytochemical, or in a category of flavonoids. These guys have typically powerful antioxidant properties, and some of them also offer anti-inflammatory capabilities. They have been shown to ease inflammation, repair cellular damage, and by supporting health to arteries and veins, they help with blood flow to the brain and can offset dementia.

An investigative article in Environmental Toxicology, indicated that Quercetin can play a role in causing apoptosis or cell death to Prostate Cancer Cells. Their data came from the China Medical University, noting that using traditional Chinese medical techniques, and finding antitumor properties from roots and herbs, that they isolated Quercetin as the factor causing antitumor properties. The researchers then treated cancer cells with Quercetin at 24 and 48 hours at various doses. They found that at 48 hours prostate cancer cells were all dead.

A similar study was conducted at the State University of New York, in Buffalo This was published at the [The Prostate]--unknown to me. These researchers treated Prostate Cancer Cells with Quercetin, and found that this flavonoid did show decreased proliferation, and viability of the Pca cells, along with Apoptosis.

Quercetin has shown promise in preventing or treating the growth of tumors and the spread of prostate cancer to tissues beyond the Prostate, which we call metastatic, or Advanced Prostate Cancer. From a study published in Clinical and Diagnostic Laboratory Immunology Journal--->In Particular, Quercetin may be helpful in halting the spread of HIGHLY MALIGNANT Pca cells. Those that wrote the paper examined the effects of Quercetin at different concentrations on various prostate cancer cell lines. The researchers found that Quercetin had a significant impact on halting the growth of aggressive and moderately aggressive Pca cell lines. With the higher concentrations of Quercetin, colony formation of higher aggressive potential were significantly inhibited. But, please note these researchers found that this did not apply to low aggressive cancers, like your Gleason 6's and some 7's.

Quercetin has been shown to deplete the levels of of the *HEAT SHOCK PROTEIN-90. This decreased viability, and induced prostate cancer cell death.

*A word about Heat Shock Proteins--->These play important roles in Carcinogenesis, by regulating Angiogenesis, cell proliferation, migration, and metastatic invasion. Heat Shock Proteins mediate apoptosis. These HSP's have a potential clinical use as being used as bio markers for cancer DX, and prognosis, as well as becoming targets for therapeutic agents. Quercetin may have the potential to bypass the side effects , that other treatments such as Chemo, and other treatments, bring to the prostate disease journey.

In using Quercetin--->it is present in teas, wines, onions, apples, dark cherries, and virgin Olive Oil. However, taking a Quercetin Supplement is the most reliable method of getting enough of this powerful phytochemical, daily. Even your Doctor believe it or not may have heard of this phytochemical, which is many times used with Bromelain, in supplementation.

Nalakrats

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how many MGs do you recommend? Going to get it for my dad on Amazon. Worth a shot.

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Hello Nalakrats, Thanks for sharing but there seems to be something wrong with the web link you provided

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I have httpp://www.ncbi.nim.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6001031 Teamkv has it below.

Nalakrats

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If by "nay-sayer" you mean me, I never said quercetin was ineffective (I don't know and neither does anyone else). All I'm saying is that you are providing no clinical evidence of safety or efficacy when you push these drugs. Rats and cell studies are not evidence of clinical efficacy and safety. Quercetin may change how liver enzymes work, thus making otherwise safe medications too weak or too strong. Here's a list of potential interactions:

webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingre...

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No-Tall--> I actually did not mean you at all, actually 2-3 others, who sent me some nasty replies, on messenger.

Nalakrats

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Glad to hear it - I thought so only because you called me a "nay-sayer" when you responded to my blog warning that curcumin interferes with PSA tests.

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You need to get up to my age--->76, and you will find you slow down as to strongly defending positions--it only ages one. Look it is getting close to my summer vacation--->July 4th--into Sept. You can have the whole site for yourself. I will be winding down. Its healthy to take care of one's self.

Nalakrats

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I volunteer at a senior center, moderating current events discussions. I find the opposite - that challenging the myths we all carry around keeps our minds fresh and alert. There are 90+ year olds in my group who don't slow down. I don't let them have their confirmation biases, and they are stimulated by it. They love it!

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Well I am glad you do this--you see you are not always showing your teeth. We are lucky to have the time to make a difference. I also teach Bible, would you believe.

Nalakrats

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I also demand civility. I only have two rules:

1. No lashon hora - I don't allow name calling of even their most hated politicians. They learn to think critically about the content of what is said, rather than attributing evil motives to the person.

2. No arguing over facts - everyone is allowed opinions, but not alternative facts.

I incorporate those rules into my posts.

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Thanks for the clarification ....Appreciate the volunteer work you do with Seniors... the elderly need intellectual stimulation to help ward off senility, and feel alive. They are the "greatest generation" IMHO...We could not win WWII today I do not believe...

Have a good evening...

Don Pescado

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You need to call out spam ads such as what Nal and his other bogus screen names are promoting here to sell their snake oil cancer "cures" to desperate people looking for quick and easy answers.

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Right on! I have not used this phrase in coons ages, but seems apropos. You bring clarity and balance to the site. Thank you.

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We are fine many hundreds will get what might be positive in the post.

Nalakrats

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Sadly, they may not see the downsides as you present an unbalanced picture.

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Come on Tall, its a nice night, in the mountains in N.C. Why not take it down, once in awhile---there will be over 50 who will respond to my posts such as these thru messenger, as they prefer to avoid you----you have set yourself up as a straw man, and you do not know it. How about ignoring me----you have your own expertise. You are not going to change those that follow me. As all I did was report something, I did not prescribe anything. I do have the right to free speech! My post on Curcumin, I did not prescribe it or suggest taking the Life Extension product. I just reported, what was already printed. Like I said go sue Life Extension.

Nalakrats

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Suggestion: just stick to the facts. When you lead with a headline calling me out, I will respond. Please don't be disingenuous.

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I did not call you out--if using nay-sayer, you thought of yourself, I cannot help you. I was trying to tie the Curcumin Post to the Quercetin--had nothing to do with you. Hey Tall, I have other things to do tonight---say goodnight Gracie.

Nalakrats

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Here's what you wrote: "Defending Curcumin Against The Nay-Sayers" the day after I published my article on curcumin. Now today you wrote: "After Defending Curcumin How About Quercetin: Next Up...Before the Nay-Sayers bounce, please read---"

If you don't want me to respond, that is obviously the wrong way to go about it.

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Is somebody chasing you, are you looking over your shoulder--calm down, you are not a target.

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You are the only one "chasing me" as far as I can tell. Learn to stick to facts instead of "chasing" people.

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Good Night Allen--you have already sent me 8 messages.

Nalakrats

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I think that we would both enjoy his posts not using as much advertising strategies such as changing units to make one product seem so much better than another such as: "Each serving of The Advanced Bio-Curcumin is equivalent to up to 2,772 mgs of your typical Curcumin Extract." May be a fact, but not the way one presents it scientifically (mg should be compared to mg). Here's an example of what I think is more appropriate discussion of supplements:

alzheimer.neurology.ucla.ed...

It was refreshing to see "prostate cancer cell lines" in one area of his post, but by frequently just stating "prostate cancer cells", it can easily be misconstrued by readers to mean in a human when it was not.

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Glad you are having fun trolling--what I wrote was off the label of the product. I have way too many followers, and those[near a thousand] that do not officially follow me, but read everything, for you to try to upend anything. Have a wonderful evening---Next up is Holy Basil---giving you a Head Start.

Nalakrats

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Thank you for clarifying the origin of the information on dose comparisons.

Regarding the accusation of trolling:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter...

Once again, please review my profile and I think that you will see why I have an interest in avenues that might keep prostate cancer at bay.

I work full-time and can't spend as much time as others may be able to, so I do research many topics that are discussed in this forum that could possibly apply to me -- it gives me a head start and direction in avenues to explore. Are you requesting that I not share what I note in my research? Do you find any factual inaccuracies in my post that you replied to?

I am very aware that supplements fall under GRAS and I have also never posted that someone should not take supplements.

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We are Clear--and OK

Nalakrats

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Thanks for sharing another great article.👍

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Your Welcome--here to serve, as I have to also serve for myself.

Nalakrats

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y ayahaha yaahaah ..... this reminds me of my heyday on the web in the IRC ( late 80s - early 90s ) where I , myself , had hundreds of flame bots, web spiders and all the rest. one, two or three people could look like hundreds upon hundreds of people during the flame wars. it was not unusual at all for only one person having violent - nasty arguments with themselves for days on end ( for entertainment I assume ) ...this under dozens of alternate identities making 1000s of for and against posts. how would we know Scorpio99 isn't nal himself , or even me be him as well ... or even most of the posters in this thread ?? anyone , if they know how, can bounce themselves around the world thru multiple locations to obscure their actual identity. headers can easily be spoofed. I'm out of the business in my old age, ... no tolerance for any of it anymore .... maybe NAL is an old flame wars pro that is having a little fun and enjoying himself ?? who knows. still this site is very helpful and full of great people, even if half of them might be just a few people instead. yahaya ya ya aya same as it ever was ............ great stuff ... might be inappropriate here tho ... dunno really ... " everything " on the web has to be taken with a grain of salt. almost nothing is what it seems. always research everything and with ANY medical advice always let your doctor be the final word ... just say'in.

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Actually I'm not me... I'm you...I think.... or am I all of you?..Hmmmm if that's true then -

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 05/15/2019 6:02 PM DST

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yaya haya ayay ah wow where do you find this stuff ?? < insert mindblown imoji here > ???? pretty kewl. since I was born in Appalachia I could dig right into this , but ........ I've decided to let it go. hey .... after 14 hours in the mine , on Friday night ... cough out a few chunks of black lung pieces ... swig down a jug of that white lightening .... it can get pretty lonely down there in Bone Yard Holler in Harlan County lots of things can happen !ay ahay aahay ahah aha a

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Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 05/15/2019 10:42 PM DST

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Remissness a little:

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 05/15/2019 10:46 PM DST

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I got out of there by the time I was 12 ... it hasn't changed much since I left . my first three wives all had blond hair , blue eyes and looked like identical twin sisters .... none of them knew each other and their families never met ( more or less ) whats that tell you ?? yahaya ahay ahaha ay aha ah ya ahaya ya ahaya ya well .......... enough of that I guess , I better quit while I'm ahead . ( I have blond hair and blue eyes too . hummmmmmmmmmm !!! )

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You sure those three wives weren't one and the same? You know that white lightning can cause vision and brain loss...👀😊

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Thursday 05/16/2019 11:52 AM DST

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ya ahaayy aahaya ya a I was never much of a drinker tho ( pill billy ) . those ladies have a WHOLE LOT more than that in common as well. it's an entire sub race ( and there are many different ones in the USA ). it's an acquired taste , I like them. thats ancient history nowadays.

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Remember I was just reporting--not prescribing--or suggesting anyone to take anything I post on. I stay in a certain lane.

Nalakrats

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ah ..... roger that. and I definitely defer to those that are ever so much more knowledgeable than I. still ........ all of here are croaking and thats bad enough all by it's self ... to see more discord and negativity benefits none of us in any possible way. I simply wanted to point out that almost nothing anyone sees on the web is ever what it seems to be .... fighting over something so tenuous both isn't really worth it and contributes nothing in the process. thats my thoughts about it anyway. we are ALL brothers here in the same sad boat together ... I guess it's hard to keep that in mind sometimes. it simply human nature and all of us are still humans for now. best wishes.

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Fail. You and Scorpio.

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We need extensive clinical evidence before putting our trust in Quercetin and similar supplements.

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Read the article, at the Gov't on this. You against the world--good luck with that--enjoy the 50 years of failed Medical Technology on Pca--I use some of it, and I use some of the available Alternatives. Works for me.

Nalakrats

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Thanks to Nalakrats for heads up & an all responders chiming in.

As a BRCA2m+ high grade PCa guy I take 3200 mg of Quercetin (with Bromelain---NOW Foods--Amazon) twice a day. Yes, it comes from the wild west of supplements, but every medonc I've seen (lots) have been OK with my taking it (or unaware of it completely and shrug.) From GS8, PSA 16 Dx I'm now PSA <0.01 for 4 years since Tx start (HDR, IMPT and 16 months ADT.)

Tall Allen's referral to interaction-check is appropriate & smart. (Checking all our PCa supplements' and meds interactions is daunting but important--even MDs are not consistent in doing this.)

I've been taking quercetin for about 10 years, which means 5 years before my PCa Dx & Tx. All Tx MD's were OK with it (even during radiation treatments.) Since learning of my BRCA2m+ status (a year ago) I've learned it's also a 'natural' PARP inhibitor (best studies funded by a Japanese sugar company) and more than doubled my daily dosage. It has far lower effectiveness compared with Rx PARPi's as olaparib (and others in the pipeline to PCa Tx) but I'm betting/hoping on its positive value--ask me in 5-10 years if it was a good bet(!)

Nicotinamide is another 'natural' PARPi I take (again as a BRCA guy--a topic for another day.)

I'm an engineer, not an MD. I'd like to think I select my risks with open eyes and serious study. I'm betting quercetin is an asset in my fight. Your mileage may vary.

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BRACA2MX is just another one of Nal's bogus screen names to promote bogus snake oil "cures". The supplement industry is a billion dollar a year scam, don't trust it with your life.

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Great conspiracy theory! I guarantee I'm a different human--not Nalakrats, who's really tryin to help us-guys & get us motivated to do our own homework. His thoughtful work is really appreciated.

I've got zero ties to the supplements industry -- truly wild west where we all should be cautious while inquisitive. Our NCCN-guideline, FDA gated MD's are swamped by great new peer-reviewed studies, papers and trial results (thousands/year,) impossible for any single MD to keep up with all, even in their own specialties. My best docs appreciate integrative-therapy engaged patient inputs. The larger west coast (my geography) world centers of excellence all have Integrative Oncology practices. Quality/value varies a lot. Again YMMV.

Any patient who wants to bet their time/life expectancy on FDA-output only is welcome to do so. Some are most comfortable fishing in small, gated ponds. I've just come to appreciate the entire ocean. For each of us, a very personal call. Isn't it great we have that choice?,

I haven't seen the word "cure" even implied on this thread -- wouldn't buy into it if I did.

Constructive inputs are nice to see on this and many other forums.

Vomiting out negativism is an interesting life choice. Sad.

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Appreciate this reply--showing a great amount of intelligence, and coming across as a Senior Adult.

Nalakrats

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BRCA2MX

You say 3200mg of Quercetin twice a day so 6400mg a day?

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Yup. That's only my wild-ass guess and personal experience limit beyond which (my) gut side effects started. Q is a log or two (lots) less effective as a PARP inhibitor (my intent) than any of the Rx PARPi's (per Kato--& other--studies--Dr. Google referrals...) I may later learn I'm nuts. DON'T act on my experience and risk comfort. Please do your own study and course-deciding.

And that 6.4 grams a day is NOW's #. NOT even FDA verified---they don't DO that for supplements.

I hide NONE of my research and action from my MDs. They all say "OK", or smile and shrug (and don't know how to spell Quercetin.) Remember, I'm a BRCA mutant...

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At this point, let me state that I do not take reservatrol which is high in quercetin or quercetin itself....it is listed as both an inducer and inhibitor of CYP3A4 in the drug list and because I am on zytiga, I avoid it...I do however take some blueberries and blackberries which have a small amount in the evening--tasty......so..if you are on zytiga, check with your PharmD--the list:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYP3A4

Thanks for posting Nalakrats...

Fish

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I'm on Zytiga. I didn't think I took any Quercetin. But then I noticed it's in red wine.

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It is in wine and berries...other things I am sure....supplements generally carry much higher levels of these substances in them...for now, I do not take the supplement form... keep drinking red wine.....they say it is good for us and I'll do the same occasionally and have my berries daily--YUM !!!!

Fish

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Most references to Quercetin mention onions. I can't imagine being on a vegan diet without eating a lot of onions. From Wiki: "Quercetin, a plant flavonol from the flavonoid group of polyphenols, is found in many fruits, vegetables, leaves, and grains; red onions and kale are common foods containing appreciable content of quercetin."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Querc...

-Patrick

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Pineapple too I thought. Thanks, pjoshea13.

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Your inputs are most welcome--as we both know the benefits of this Phytochemical.

Nalakrats

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I didn't mean that I am vegan. But for vegans here, it would be difficult to exclude quercetin from the diet. -P

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Has anyone run a test re: Zytiga and Quercetin. Or is this another attempt by the Medical Community where the Doctors are not Chemists, Molecular Bio-Chemists, or Food Scientists---with no Phase 3 Study to prove anything, except their may be a certain pathway that can be interfered with, as to Zytiga---Show me the Molecular Bio-Chemistry, down at the cancer cell anatomy. Where is the beef?

Nalakrats

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The doctors may not be Chemists or Biochemists, but those [EDIT: corrected typo these-->those] are a few of the disciplines that work in drug discovery, development and investigations in the lab and clinic.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Is this the information that you want regarding the mechanism of action for Zytiga?

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

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BTW We know your 69 years old... but can you update us about yourself. Location? Treatment Location? Your Doctor's name(s)? All replies are voluntary and it helps us help you and helps us too. If you do reply please do so in a future post and NOT to me. Thank you....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 05/15/2019 6:20 PM DST

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BTW Scorpio has been restricted. So we will not have any more of his ravings.

Nalakrats

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good move.... what a schmuck

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 05/15/2019 9:42 PM DST

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A schmuch in a N.Y minute.

Nalakrats

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I hope calling him out hastened that result.

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Yes!

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I do value Tall Allen, I have followed him on several sites, he has vast knowledge on the subject.

Nalakrats is also a very knowledgeable on the subject, we are lucky to have them on this site.

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Thank you for your posts. They are educational and informative. We the readers are responsible on what we do with this information. I appreciate it, and also take what posters provide and research it as well. I think for some people, it wouldn't matter what you post. They would knock it down just because you posted it. Keep posting and ignore the others. So many more people appreciate the information!

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For some reason, I seem to have omitted to include quercetin in my series of posts on supplement studies. But I do have a few threads:

"Quercetin & AR-V7."

healthunlocked.com/advanced...

"Metformin & Quercetin - Synergy?"

healthunlocked.com/advanced...

"Quercetin - another option."

healthunlocked.com/advanced...

-Patrick

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Thanks, Patrick. These posts are incredibly helpful in filling out the "big picture", thanks.

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He's the best.

Nalakrats

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I take Quercetin supplements. The heat shock proteins can be exploited. I take a largish dose of quercetin before doing DIY whole-body hyperthermia to 102-104 F.

A Phase 1 clinical trial demonstrated that Quercitin was safe at doses up to 5 g/day in patients with Hepatitis C:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Inhibiting the HSPs (heat shock proteins) improved the efficacy of ablative treatments (much higher temperatures than whole body hyperthermia, up to 70 C / 158 F) in a rat model.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

There are presently 117 hits on pubmed for the search terms "quercetin cancer heat shock," I haven't read them all - yet.

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You ought to Post this instead of adding to the Thread---some important info--that may cause people here to do some research on their own--that is what I try to do, is to stimulate more involvement--that is why I rarely give the actual articles that I accumulate info on--some you need a translator on your computer, as I get many from China, Japan, and South Korea.

Nalakrats

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I’ve taken Quercetin for a few years for my allergies, usually from April to the first hard Frost. I think it works quite well and I’m glad to not have to take those allergy pills which have their own unique set of side effects. To each his own. Thank you, Nalakrats.

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That's interesting. I've been plagued by allergies almost year round here in Phoenix area.

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Good info Nal. I have taken 500 mg of Q with Bromelian for several years now. Thanks.

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cannot access the ncbi.nim.nih.gov/pmc/articl... you cite

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May find it if google--Quercetin and Prostate Cancer

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Its counterproductive to read accusations about someone having multiples alias that cant be backed up with solid facts behind. Show me a log of the healtunlocked forum activity proving that someone is using 2+ aliases with the same IP adress or the same subnet.

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I'm pleased to see that my naturopath has put me on this supplement.

I've been taking it for about 6 weeks now.

Also, it should be noted that my oncology blood work from the RGCC Group listed Quercetin as one of the 'tools' that is effective in MY fight against this disease.

That is proof that this is something to consider for helping with other tools.

I'm a G9 Dx, so that adds to my ability to push back.

Thanks for the post ....

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You ought to Post this instead of running this rely in this thread---you would be supporting what us Naturopaths are trying to bring to the party. There is not one magic bullet, but when you put the BB's together they can make a hell of a noise.

Nalakrats

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Thank you for the info. I'll run this one by my NDr at my cancer center tomorrow.

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He should be up to speed on its use.

Nalakrats

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This is the snippet of Nalakrat's post that all should be aware of when considering his interpretation of the data: "on various prostate cancer cell lines." The information that he discusses is not from quercetin in humans, it is from investigations in either cultured cells (petri dishes, 96 well plates, sample tubes, etc.) or in cells in mice/rats. For more information on what "prostate cancer cell lines" means, please visit:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

The question is how well does the effect in these prostate cancer cell models translate into the actual human with all of its complexities of interacting systems?

DISCLOSURE: I currently take a calcium and vitamin D supplement and in the past have taken a supplement for osteoarthritis, so I am not against supplements. Awareness that frequently the efficacy of the supplement in a human has not been proven, which I think needs to be acknowledged.

Hazard's reply in the following linked post probably sums up some feelings:

healthunlocked.com/advanced...

Hazard: "Disclaimer. I take curcumin daily. Along with many other supplements. Why do I do this if these claims are demonstrable a load oif rubbish? Because I have Stage 4 cancer (mets in liver) and I am desperate."

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Fact or fib. My head is like a ping pong ball. Thank you Nalakrats and Tall_Allen. We love you both. You are the ying and the yang. Now go and argue who is the ying and who is the yang. Was not expecting the Game of Thrones on this overcast and dreary Wed. morning. Enjoy.

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twiddle dee and twiddle dum... I'm still gonna have my supplemental fun...

Chocolate Chip Ice cream (two scoops)...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 05/15/2019 6:26 PM DST

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I think that the reference from The Clinical and Diagnostic Laboratory Immunology Journal is this paper:

europepmc.org/backend/ptpmc...

From the paper:

"In summary, we found that the dietary bioflavonoid quercetin, present in many foods of plant origin, manifested significant, selective inhibition of the growth of prostate cancer cells

in vitro. These effects were greatest on cells with the highest aggressive potentials. We also showed that the anticancer effects of quercetin are mediated by inhibition of the expression of various cell cycle genes and oncogenes and enhancement of the expression of several tumor suppressor genes. Our results correlate with those of nutritional studies that support the roles of dietary bioflavonoids as cancer chemopreventive agents."

HOWEVER, the details are important regarding which cells, the method to grow the cells and how quercetin was administered to the cells.

The cells: "The human prostate cancer cell lines PC-3, DU-145, and LNCaP

were obtained from the American Type Culture Collection (Manassas, Va.). DU-145 and PC-3 cells were isolated from metastases in brain and lumbar vertebra, respectively (2, 8). DU-145 and PC-3 are androgen independent (11, 38). DU-145 cells are less invasive in in vitro assays and exhibit a relatively low potential for metastasis in vivo compared to the metastatic potential of the more malignant PC-3 cells. The LNCaP cell line was established from a metastatic lesion of a human prostatic adenocarcinoma and is poorly aggressive (11). While LNCaP cells are androgen responsive, their growth is not androgen dependent."

Human cells outside of the human body.

Cell growth: "Cell cultures were maintained in RPMI 1640 medium supplemented with nonessential amino acids, L-glutamine, a twofold vitamin solution (Life Technologies, Grand Island, N.Y.), sodium pyruvate, Earl’s balanced salt solution, 10%

fetal bovine serum, and penicillin and streptomycin (Flow Laboratories, Rockville, Md.). Approximately 400 cells/60-mm plastic dish (Falcon; Becton Dickinson, Lincoln Park, N.J.) were cultured at 37°C in a humidified atmosphere of 5% CO2 and 95% air."

Human cells grown in a culture medium in a dish in an incubation chamber, not within a human body.

Quercetin administration: "At the end of 24 h of incubation, quercetin (Sigma Co, St.

Louis, Mo.) was added at different concentrations (0 to 50 [micro]M) and the cultures were divided into two sets. After incubation for another 24 h, one set was used for RNA extraction. The second set was harvested for colony formation after 8 days of culture."

Not even close to taking quercetin orally where here is only a fraction of questions that need answered to try to establish dosing: How much is absorbed in the gastrointestinal tract and how much is excreted? How much gets into the blood in an active form and how long is it there? What concentration does the target prostate cancer cell in a human finally get exposed to?

Exactly how similar is the cell model to the human model? Now we know why clinical trials in people are needed for drug approval.

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Your inputs are going over 95% of the peoples heads on this site. That is why I write as I do--if you have these needs to explore anything I use/come across--and breaking it out as a scientific journey--have fun. But your reference to [that is why we need clinical trials]--this is not true for supplements--they fall under GRAS, of the FDA. And we the people can make a choice about what we will do with certain info, that is reported--no subscribing, or endorsing ever occurs from my Posts. Glad I can fill out your day's.

Nalakrats

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Please review my profile and I think that you will see why I have an interest in avenues that might keep prostate cancer at bay.

I work full-time and can't spend as much time as others may be able to, so I do research many topics that are discussed in this forum that could possibly apply to me -- it gives me a head start and direction in avenues to explore. Are you requesting that I not share what I note in my research? Do you find any factual inaccuracies in my post that you replied to?

I am very aware that supplements fall under GRAS and I have also never posted that someone should not take supplements.

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Guess I was having a bad day--I get about 50 messages a day, on messenger, plus what is in open forum.--that is why when July 4th comes I shut down, and just focus on research--as you do--no--you are fine with me. What I am working on for 8 months--maybe you can contribute---Is How To Kill Dormant Pca Cells.

Nalakrats

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Also--I see your profile, what is your education, and life work focus?

Nalakrats

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I second the motion..............

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 05/15/2019 6:30 PM DST

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I have found two quercetin supplements that I like. I can attest that both of these have helped us with allergies.. I am hoping they are helping my husband beat back his cancer.

My husband takes both kinds too. I also cook tons of onions in just about everything..(I figure it won't hurt)

Revgenetics Quercetin in the bottle... We put a squirt in our morning smoothie.

store.revgenetics.com/colle...

I also like the one by Dr Pai(Sanjevani).. I think he is re-labelling another brand.. but I have not been able to figure out which one.. so I get his.. It seems to help my allergies a lot.. here is the link..

sanjevanistore.com/collecti...

I hope this helps someone. Sending you all hugs, prayers and love!

Softwaremom

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Keep researching! Fermented real-3 week old Sauerkraut, Garlic, Cayenne Pepper, and Horseradish, are also helpful.

Nalakrats

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Quercetin increased the antiproliferative activity of green tea polyphenol (-)-epigallocatechin gallate in prostate cancer cells.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/224...

quercetin + green tea = good stuff

--Capt. Dave

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Captain Dave, who do you think Isolated EGCG, from Tea, and published the process, to remove this compound from tea using Column Chromatography---circa--1966. You never know who you may run into.

Nalakrats

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Clinical trials are hugely important and (pretty much) WORK. Tho there are a lot of games played and a LOT 'avoided' (such as: direct comparisons--but who'd get a financial ROI from such studies??)

I sat in a keynote (extended) lunchtime presentation where Dr. Peter Nelson, leader of The Hutch in Seattle, made a case to several hundred UCSF prostate cancer researchers (2018 PCa Research Retreat) that combination treatments (parallel, overlapping, multi-front attack) were the future winning course for containing/winning against Prostate Cancer (note: no word CURE was in there...) He sucked the air out of the room. Only the PCF sponsors and U Penn invited guests asked questions (enthusiastically by my lights...) The younger students and post-docs know this to be true (my read) and will be blessed with enough Big Data computing power to eventually make this real. In a few decades +/-. [Most of us current advanced PCa patients will be long dead.]

Gracious (and alive!) former big-dog cancer researcher and clinician Dr. Charles (Snuffy) Myers [and PCa patient/survivor] sings and practiced the same song (brilliantly IMO.) I know a not-small number of his former patients that are still breathing and smiling because Snuffy didn't hesitate to 'color outside the lines.' [Of course many others are dead. It's just a matter of when and how we'll each get there. ]

AIDS has been 'contained' by parallel simultaneous 'cocktail' treatments. FDA norms were bent and broken to drive that controversial containment of a controversial malady. The folks that contained that disease (to the degree it actually may be,) colored WAY outside the 'official' lines and moved like lightning, taking a LOT of risks with treatment protocols. That does NOT mean those FDA/NCCN/AMA/(etc) lines are BAD.

I believe it means we known life-expectancy-shortened PCa patients have a choice of sequential resistant mechanism spurring through official guidelines Tx or getting on our own horses, researching our own circumstances and playing our own hands withIN AND outside 'guidelines' and SOC. Great MD's are our best guides, but our treatment decisions are OURS, unless and until we give up on our own judgment and abandon our fate to others---even the best professionals---It really IS OUR individual call. [& yes, there is a very slow evolution of multiple simultaneous PCa treatments happening.--]

I GET the Pharma/System (purposeful Capitalized) voices here: and its MY life to live best I can. Interaction and effectiveness uncertainties acknowledged. Open eyed. What goes into my body is my choice (to practical limits) and I'm blessed to be in a country where I make those choices. Including going outside of the USA when/if I deem it positive in my Tx/life-course. With the best medical-pro guidance I can find. They've got the tools best at hand. IF we can get them to use them.

I'm not waiting a 'few decades' because I won't be here then. I'm living with the consequences of my calls. So are each of you.

There are some great contributors to this thread. Hats off.

And the flamer games are great fun to watch...

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If you ever saw the movie--The Dallas Buyers Club, this was a take-off on what really happened between the Natural Substances that were working, and big Pharma coming in with the DEA Police/FDA, to get competition out of the way for their AZT drug, which did not work by itself--and the actual Naturals did not come from Mexico--they came from South America. They changed places to protect Identities. And of course AZT failed, and morphed into a 3 drug cocktail.

And that Natural that was working for AIDS, is being used for Pca by a few of us in the know. BRCA2MX--great write--enjoyed it.

Nalakrats

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Are you actually saying that some herbs can cure HIV?

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It is not surviving HIV, there was a Herbal Extract that was putting HIV/AIDS into remission, for many not all. No Cures--buying lots of time. Along came the FDA, using the DEA as their Police Force, and confiscated a warehouse of this/these Natural Herbal Extracts, and arrested the group bringing these substances into the USA, and distributing them to AIDS patients. Big Pharma was the instigator, of this action.

This product made it to being the Key note address of the WORLD AIDS EXPO, in 1998 and in 2000. After this AZT was approved--- and quickly failed, as many FDA rush jobs do--and today we now have a 3 drug Cocktail.

I know all this S*** because I volunteered as to this subject---watch the movie Dallas Buyers Club---it is not a complete history--but the jist of it, is kind of correct to what actually happened in those days.

Really a sad story for our Gov't.

Nalakrats

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Well, well said comrade.

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Nal

How long have u been taking Quercitin?

And how many mg per day... 500mg?

Also Nal I was trying to find your PC history. I know you are 76 ( congrats) and are chemo naive and now I know you take Qurcetin. But what Mets do u have and what meds are you currently on... pharmaceutical and natural products.

Obviously using/ adding something to extend my use of Zytiga is of great interest to me. So far options include switch of prednisone to dexamethasone, BAT, Indomethicin and now Quercetin. 14 months for me so far on Zytiga, 140 would be nice lol!!

Thanks!

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Send me a message, and I will try to respond--I cannot respond here.

Nalakrats

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Click on my icon in one of my reply messages, and it should come up where you can see the message word---and then click on that.

Nalakrats

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How do I private message??

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We have been doing IV treatments with an Epigenetic specialist for last 7 months. He is seeking FDA approval BUT it is a LONG (10+ year process). Basically my stage IV BRCA2+ husband has received treatments of high doses of polyphenols (Quercetin being at foundation). Maybe snake oil BUT it brought his Alele fraction (circulating tumor cells) from 2.3% to non-detectable. His Mets in lymph’s and bones have shrunk significantly AND there are NO side effects. If you can’t do IV’s then maybe consider making own suppositories with a polyphenol blend as they can be absorbed in mucus membrane almost as much as an IV.

Yes, supplement market makes a LOT of money BUT so do pharmaceutical companies! Nature made combined with man made will always win over one or the other alone!

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Amen--nothing like having someone speak truth to the unbelieving.

Nalakrats

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