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Advanced Prostate Cancer
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SOMEONE INDICATED THAT THEY ARE HERE TO DEFEND THE RIGHTS OF PATIENTS.

And also declares that the FDA has Not approved the use of Bitter Melon. Bitter Mellon is FDA approved under the the American Food and Drug Administration, commonly called the FDA, under the regulation called GRAS. GRAS stands for[Generally Regarded As Safe]. Approval is given to food ingredients, be they chemical, if nature identical, substances added to food, or foods or ingredients of foods-- determined to be safe by FDA experts. Thus supplements, including the dried powder of fruits, herbs, and other edibles, or their extractives have had to be given FDA approval under the rules and regulations of GRAS, of the FDA.

So the Bitter Melon being an Edible Fruit has FDA Approval as a dehydrated concentrated Powder in Capsule form. It is true that consuming [too much] of certain things, like sugar, salt, and fats can seriously harm oneself. So the FDA allows the Manufacturers to set limits, but with the FDA approval by their experts. I guess our protector, has never had to submit a GRAS request or stand before the board at the FDA in Washington, seeking approvals! Some here have! Its a Bitch.

So yes indeed many of the substances that myself, pjoshea[Patrick], et al, bring to this site are indeed FDA approved for Human Consumption. WE do not ask anyone to use what we discuss, we declare we are not prescribing, and we are not Doctors, and for sure not practicing Medicine. And we defend to the end of the earth for people to make their own choices and I personally am a fan of many drugs---still taking for my Pca, Metformin, Proscar, Avodart, Arimidex, and was a user of Casodex, and Lupron when I needed it.

Nalakrats

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We're all different and who knows what may help one and not another? Also we all have our own ideas. Can't know unless we share them. Let's always be supportive and respectful of others' posts. We aren't doctors and don't prescribe. And there are a lot of doctors out there who are at least semi-quacks. I know; got a couple. Educate yourself and never take anything as gospel. And keep a positive attitude. It's a beautiful world and we all have some incredibly wonderful caregivers and helpers through this journey.

Courage, mes braves!

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I am known to some friends as Dr. Quack Jack lol.

🌼Jack ie ;)

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"A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."

The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition.[2][3]"

See generally my favorite peer reviewed journal:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str...

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The FDA has NEVER approved a natural supplement for a medical use without proof of safety and efficacy. However, natural supplements can be sold in the US as long as no claims are made about it. The Food and Drug Act does not enable them to do this. It is a loophole in the law. However, they can keep supplement manufacturers from making unproven claims, such as those you are making. The government cannot stop you from saying any fool thing you want, but if you try to make such claims for a product you sell, they can stop you. It's their job to protect people from selling snake oil cures.

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You do not read very well--I did not make any claims--just reported. The only Claim I made was I was not a Doctor. You need to stop making things up---I do not do anything but report certain findings, and ask people to do their own study, and that I am not prescribing

You have been accused of practicing medicine on HealthUnlocked. These statements came to me privately while on my summer sabbatical by Messenger option on HealthUnlocked. Men, about 6-8 of them, were afraid to mention it publicly. You are the one that needs to be careful about what you provide. Just a heads up.

You know---I think you are recognized for about 6 Posts.. in 2 1/2 years. Think you can find new and exciting things to bring to the Folks here from the Drug/Pharma industry? I brought attention to the Combo of the PARP and Checkpoint Inhibitor that a Noble prize was announced for months before anyone knew of it---where were you? I just do not only do supplements. Going to bed I am old.

Nalakrats

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That's ingenuous. Why would you post a thing like that on a site like this if not to encourage people to follow your lead? What you want to do to yourself is your business - when you harm others, I'll get involved.

I have only been posting on this site (advanced prostate cancer) for a few months, not 2 -1/2 years. I have 200 followers here, and my own blog gets about 300 hits/day and my infolink blog gets about 1500 hits each. I also answer many questions in private.

The Nobel prize was won by James Allison of MD Anderson Cancer Center and Tasuku Honjo of Kyoto University for the discovery of checkpoint inhibitors that block CTLA-4 and PD-L1. It had nothing whatever to do with PARP inhibitors. You certainly did not inform me about PARP inhibitors or checkpoint inhibitors, but I'm glad to hear that you do something other on here than promote questionable supplements.

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The problem as I see it is that you believe that all supplements are "snake oil".

The FDA isn't specifically trying to protect people (there have certainly been failures in the Pharma arena). It simply insists that when a product makes claims that turn it from a food into a drug, that the product first go through all of the steps that any drug must go through.

In the case of PomWonderful, the Resnicks tried to use a clinical trial (Pantuck, 2006 [1]) to indicate that pomegranate might be PCa-protective. Seems reasonable to me, but under FDA rules products cannot make references to scientific studies where the product was used as a drug. Does not matter how convincing the study was.

Dr. Myers has spoken favorably about pomegranates. In fact, he used the Pantuck study to argue that sugar does not feed PCa.

"Mean PSA doubling time significantly increased with treatment from a mean of 15 months at baseline to 54 months posttreatment (P < 0.001)." Not what you would expect if the sugar (~35 grams in 8 oz) feeds cancer.

From the perspective of someone with advanced PCa, the Pantuck study suggests that a pomegranate extract might slow progression.

It's upsetting for the advanced cases here that use supplements, to hear from someone who does not have advanced PCa, that such products are snake oil.

-Patrick

[1] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/168...

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Hey Tall-Allen! Patrick is this sites most prolific Researcher. Much more by far than anyone. He has provided 620 Posts, to your 6. He has brought much to this site besides ADT, Radiation, and Chemo--which we have been doing in gross failure for 40 years. Time for you to add things that are forward thinking. You have no Magic Bullets---just the same old Oat Meal--at least some of us use Instant Oat Meal.

Nalakrats

P.S. And God Bless Patrick for all that he brings to This Site---Amen

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This isn't a penis size contest, but there are several hundred posts in my blog. As I said, I've only been coming on this forum for a few months. Every week, there are a couple hundred new research studies published about prostate cancer. It is not just about posting links to research studies (anyone can do that) - it's about putting them in context, understanding how to evaluate them, and what they mean for the patient. As you can see in the above, Patrick does not yet understand how - I'm hopeful he will learn.

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I think Patrick can defend himself--and I believe he is one of the men here that while on my Summer Vacation decried your use of practicing medicine, along with others.

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I don't practice medicine - I help patients understand their options.

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Then it comes across that way to some--what is wrong with saying you are not a Doctor, and what I am reporting is in my Opinion Only, followed by Publication support.

Nalakrats

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I write that very clearly on my blog in the "about the author" section.

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I do it every time I write something--big difference

Nalakrats

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Trust me - I never thought you were a physician.

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You can trust me--I know you would be lost in the Clinic of Naturopaths--all with MD's in Internal Medicine Or certified in Naturopathy. I also provide curing info on Heart Disease, Bone Health, High Blood Pressure. Diabetes. restless leg syndrome, cataracts, A-fib--all without drugs---and many others. I am kind of a Food Bar as to disease prevention and treatment--but not claiming to be a doctor.

Pca, just happens to be something I have --so I participate.

Nalakrats

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You're right : naturopathy=quackery to me, and patients are damaged by it:

pcnrv.blogspot.com/2018/07/...

I would label you as a "supplement bar" rather than a "food bar." We agree that supplements are drugs. In your posts, you disregard safety and human efficacy. While I cannot prescribe any drugs, you do (unlike FDA-approved drugs, anyone can get drugs from Amazon)- so I think you are the only one here practicing medicine without a license.

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That's a perfect example that makes my point. You didn't do enough research... Pantuck followed up with a randomized clinical trial that proved once and for all that Pomegranate has no effect:

nature.com/articles/pcan201532

The reason the earlier study drew erroneous conclusions is because PSADT has been found to fluctuate wildly and is not a useful endpoint unless compared to a placebo. This was written about by researchers at Johns Hopkins in 2013:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Not all research has the same value.

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I chose the Pantuck study because the FDA objected to the Resnicks use of it.

I might have used Carducci's study of POMx (2013 [1]):

"Overall, median PSADT in the ITT population lengthened from 11.9 months at baseline to 18.5 months after treatment ..."

but if PSADT is not a valid end-point ...

Incidentally, "Declining PSA levels were observed in 13 patients (13%)."

-Patrick

[1] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

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Go Patrick--defender of the researchers.

Nal.

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It doesn't matter which of the two non-placebo trials you reference, they BOTH did not use a placebo. As the Johns Hopkins study found PSADT without a placebo is NOT a valid endpoint. Since the 17th century it has been recognized that only placebo-controlled trials can prove that a therapy works. When they did one, they found that pomegranate had no effect. Note the dates of the the trials.

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Tall Allen,

I think you may be feeding the troll.

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You are surely right - I typically ignore his posts - I should have this time.

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Yet, for men with the manganese superoxide dismutase (MnSOD) AA genotype, there was a "12 month change in median PSADT from 13.6 at baseline to 25.6 months" which greatly exceeded the 1.8 month gain in the placebo arm.

-Patrick

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What's the possible harm in ingesting pomegranate juice? Why does every supplement or natural ingredient have to be 'proven effective'? You carry this science bit a little too far. I take prune juice for regularity. Is there a double blind placebo study that proves that it works? Nah, it just works. The next time I visit the grocery store I'll add a bottle of pomegranate juice. I'll also double down on the MCP supplement I take. I take L-arginine, L-Taurine, CoQ10, and Acetly-L-carnitine to help manage my a-fib. Am I a fool for doing so? Maybe they haven't been proven to help in some double blind study either but my a-fib is sure under good control.

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A supplement is different from a food or drink. Our bodies evolved to get what we need from the foods we eat. Supplements, on the other hand, are drugs that mess with our biology. Can you imagine any prescribed drug that did not have to prove itself to be safe and effective? Yet you do that with these other pills you take. Most of them probably won't harm you or do much of anything other than empty your wallet.

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Adult men here are pretty well educated, and I think most of them have their elevators going to the top. They have Search Engines, and can do their own research. Since you admit supplements will not harm anyone--and if they did they would have been pulled by the FDA, since none that I know of that are being used by many people here--your back-up reason is that it will empty their Wallets--So are you now becoming their financial advisers? I just bought 5 Mega Million Lotto's today--was that OK?

Nalakrats

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I did NOT say that supplements will not harm anyone. Re-read.

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OK

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Supplements are most often things found in our food and drink, only in more concentrated or convenient form. I don't like curry but I can pop a turmeric capsule. Cranberry juice, straight, is a bit much but I can pop a cranberry 'capsule'. See where I am going with this? It's the convenience factor and it 'supplements' what we are missing in our often junk food diets.

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Supplements are not just a pill form of food. They concentrate and put in more than you could ever eat. They are drugs.

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There are many drugs that don't live up to expectations or claims from Big Pharma.

Blood pressure meds come to mind. There are several that cause more problems than they help- big pharma has NEVER come up with a cure for anything but they have 100's of pills that will drain your wallet with little or no benefit. Also the labels provide a list of every horrible side effect possible (to ward off law-suits) up to and including death before ending with "this is not a complete list of side effects."

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Adlerman you hit the target--since 2002 --2016, the fDA had to Ban over 50 mainstream Drugs--some taken for 20 years--as they were killing too many people as well as causing other irreversible side effects. So how did they get approved the first go around--was it incompetency--or some under the table deal. I identify a bunch of these well known drugs in a Post I did about 5 months ago[Their were 50, i did not mention all--but my post was I believe on Natural Supplements/Inflammatories--which got ignored by some.

Can you imagine people taking a Drug approved by the FDA, yet banned By Europe, that had to be pulled--only after 13, 15 and 20 years of use. My God--what else can our Gov't do right. Maybe, Allen can become a consultant for the FDA--so he can continue to protect patients. Get a Proton Pump Inhibitor--and you can never get off of the drug--it is easier to get off Heroin.

Nalakrats

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"big pharma has NEVER come up with a cure for anything"

What about all the antibiotics, antiparasitics and antifungals? What about Harvoni for Hep C? Scores of diseases that were once fatal are now preventable and curable. What disease has a supplement ever cured (other than vitamin deficiencies, which are better cured by proper nutrition anyway)

"Also the labels provide a list of every horrible side effect possible "

That is a major difference between the drugs you buy at a pharmacy and the drugs you buy on Amazon. With FDA-approved drugs, it goes through rigorous safety and efficacy testing, and quality control is monitored. That's how they come up with the list of side effects. With supplements, safety and efficacy are totally unknown, and quality control is non-existent. They can't tell you what the side effects are because they don't know. Also, because what's in each bottle may be different.

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So why does the FDA approve drugs that list "possible death" as a side effect? The good outweighs the bad? Not hardly.

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I hear you loud and clear---not everyone can make their own decisions and drive their own treatments. I am fortunate to be able. Sometimes drugs are called for, and i do the calling. Then if supplements bring added advantages--they get added.

Nakakrats.

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Harvoni- at just $189,000 for the 84 pills needed for the cure. Most of that cost is due to the cost of buying the company that owned the patent- it only costs $136 to make the pills. So the patients are paying the cost of buying the company- free enterprise at it's worst.

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How much will we all pay for a life saving cure. If I had it, I would give it a way for free. As that is what God would surely want me to do. How in the world would I be able to live with myself.

Do you know who paid for the drug Xtandi? You did, and I did. Department of Defense Money/NIH, gave UCLA millions of our dollars, for the research. Did we the people get it back as it was our money. NO! UCLA sold or gave in some manner to a Japanese Big Pharma Co. And the initial cost for us when it came out was 10,000 Dollars per month. Not sure who makes it now. But this is a true story. Tell that to Buddy_Blank--he paid also.

Nalakrats

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Look Allen is either a spokes person for Big Pharma, or he became indoctrinated by working somewhere in the industry--It is interesting he is the first to respond finding papers showing no positive results, for anything natural--my God Aloe Vera, which is used for years to cleanse Kidneys, I am sure he can find something, that it poisoned rats in a study.

I suggested without malice, that he stay in his lane of Orthodox Medicine--I do both Alternative and Orthodox, so I cross back and forth--and let free people make up their own free minds, as we are adults, and we have great Search Engines to research anything mentioned, no matter how crazy. He refuses--he claims he has to defend patients, against unproven, or those things not approved by the FDA. So if the Pomegranate, is an approved Fruit under the FDA GRAS, status, it does not make mention that the seeds are not--so if you want to grind up seeds, as you believe there is a health benefit--then do so.

I hope Tall_Allen is reading this as I may make mention of it in a post: In the Bible, GOD say's,"he has given man everything he needs by what He has provided on Earth". Almost 70 % of all drugs came or started from a natural source, or a natural chemical found in something living. When Aspirin was discovered in the Willow Bark--there was no FDA.

To date there is over 1,000,000 species that man has not even evaluated yet for their value or any of the chemicals that might be different and never identified yet within these species. We have years of evaluations---But IMO Only--is a key that stops cancer cells from preventing T cells from eating them up, and spitting out their carcass's out--something that unblocks the defenses--and who knows that agent, may be in the Amazon Jungle right now and not yet discovered.

WSO--you get my point--Drink your Pomegranate Juice[I prefer the 7X Concentrate], and live long and prosper!

Nalakrats

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Probably Call Darryl and see what he needs.

Nalakrats

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Be careful, here not every supplier of a supplement is the manufacturer. There was once a popular Brand in the late 1960's Called Land of Plenty--it was my brand for my chain of Health Food Stores I owned in NYC. I did not manufacture--I had Schiff Vitamins in N.J. do it for me. We had more label leeway in those days--and it appeared I was the manufacturer when I was not.

Today there are so many labels, as companies take niche positions. I have to do my own research on these companies. There is one I am working on now called [A Squared]. I am trying to find out where their raw materials are coming from, and I am asking them for their MSDS sheets on materials--I want to know if their ingredients are coming from China for example.

So Tall_Allen is right in many ways and you are right also, in that we can find out a lot.

I was the one who put out the warning on the changes that New Chapter was making. We had as a group at my urging---over 60 letters went to their CEO, and their V/P of quality Control--4 months later the CEO resigned.

Did we cause it--maybe--as I did the same thing on Inspire---that has thousands of more members in Pca than HealthUnlocked.

But we as consumers can validate the suppliers of Natural Ingredients, and trust after verifying.

I do not tell a Lot of what I do--but in the next week I have an appointment and a plant inspection of GIAI Herbs. I know they source their own Herbs, as they grow their own in their Greenhouses and outdoor planting area's. I want to know if they are using herbicides.

And I want to watch their extraction process--I helped bring CO2 extraction out of Europe, in the 80's, and I want to watch their Ethanoic Extractions, as well. I am using a couple of their products, and they are close enough for me to drive to.

I cannot do this with any Drug---at any Manufacturer---as they armed to the teeth at the front door.

Nalakrats

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The FDA monitors pharmaceutical manufacturing before and after. No one monitors supplement manufacturing on a regular basis. The FDA is supposed to monitor supplements after marketing to determine that what they say is on the label is really in the pill, but they are underpowered to do so because of the huge proliferation of supplements. When they do, the results are scary:

jamanetwork.com/journals/ja...

Those who take natural supplements may not be getting what they think they're getting.

Many of us take statins, for one reason or another. Some of you may know that statins were discovered in a fungus on rice called red yeast rice. The active ingredient in it is called monacolin K. That ingredient is purified and sold as a prescription drug, lovastatin. Some prefer the natural source.

So a recent study looked at 28 popular brands of red yeast rice and analyzed them for monacolin K, Here's what they found:

• Monacolin K was not detected in two brands.

• In the 26 brands that contained monacolin K, the quantity ranged more than 60-fold from 0.09 to 5.48 mg per 1200 mg of red yeast rice.

• Following the manufacturers’ recommendations for daily servings, the quantity of monacolin K consumed per day would range more than 120-fold from 0.09 to 10.94 mg.

journals.sagepub.com/doi/fu...

An accompanying editorial points out the safety hazard...

The editorial said...

"The adverse effects that were reported relate to muscle symptoms, liver enzyme abnormalities, allergic, skin and gastro-intestinal reactions...Uncertainties related to safety issues also exist when it comes to the composition of these products; some may also contain monacolins other than monacolin K, which may also influence the lipid profile. These supplements may also contain saturated and unsaturated fatty acids, pigments, minerals, plant sterols and citrinin. The precise content of the supplements is generally not labelled; methods to measure the composition are insufficiently standardized; the absence of mycotoxins such as citrinin should be measured with great precision."

Even when the labels are correct, we have to be cautious about taking supplements. There is nothing "natural" about supplements. Our bodies evolved to process foods, not isolated and concentrated ingredients. We, and our microbiomes, can extract what we need and handle the limited amounts of toxins that occur naturally. The internet is full of sites like "Life Extension" and daytime TV is full of shows like "Dr Oz" that promote supplements while playing fast and loose with medical evidence. They spin research to make it sound scientific, but it is usually fake medical news.

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Statins were foisted on the public by moving a decimal point in the research. Now that they make a gazillon dollars for big pharma opposing views to their need are squashed instead of being investigated. Chloresterol is needed by the body. Diet changes are needed not statins.

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Liver makes 80 % of all measurable Cholesterol, the rest comes from diet---There is a disease which is too low Cholesterol Hypo-Cholesterolaremia] May not have spelled this right.---Cholesterol is needed by the body to make Testosterone. In healthy Males who have taken their cholesterol to low with Statins---will have difficulty trying to perform sexually. Too Low Cholesterol=Low T

There is a commune in Italy--where the average age at death of the residents, is 98, with many living to 104. About 20 years ago they were evaluated by researchers to try to see what they did or ate, to allow them to live so long. The most interesting Blood Marker, was that the average Total Cholesterol of the commune was just over 400. Needless to say this investigation was buried. It is something that came across my desk--and I just made a mental note--and have never forgotten this. The Detailers of statins are selling the idea--that it is good for Toe Fungus----{Ha Ha]--Look up how many new uses are now attached for the use of Statins!

Nalakrats

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That's common with Big Pharma. When the market for an approved drug dries up they begin off label use- or with the help of the FDA they raise the price.

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I think there is about a half dozen new uses--i do not follow exactly--but have seen things cross my desk--about the use of statins for other ailments--My Toe Fungus was Tongue in Cheek--think the message was clear.

Nalakrats

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fake medical news? Where have I heard that term before? Exactly how are you affected by people taking supplements.? Do you have control issues?

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yes, at 93 you are old and like Capt Hook lost a leg to a gator

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Prove it where is the picture with me and my Peg Leg.

Nalakrats

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your daughter, Lizarda sent me the pics

image2.sina.com.cn/bj/uploa...

Nal fishing in Costa Rica

c2.staticflickr.com/4/3302/...

looking for worms

thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/eld...

Drinking Gator Blood

thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/dru...

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Thanks for interjecting some humor ; hopefully it will pour some calm on these turbulent waters.

I am so thankful for this site. Before joining, i felt alone trying to hunt down answers in clinical articles, knowing no one but me “in the this scary boat”. You guys have turned on the light. Sharing and debating is great and greatly multiplies what we can do alone. The true enemy is the Pca. What becomes a problem is when the debate decends into personal attacks vs disagreements regarding the concepts. The links provided are invaluable-so many eyes looking instead of just two-power of numbers! Not only articles but links to drs and facilities.

With such a scary disease it’s understandable that raw emotions easily come to the surface.

I think we need you all. I think it’s our individual responsibility to decide what to take from each post and then do our own further focused research to refine our response and potential action.

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Is it time for a WWE Championship? - Nalkrats takes on Tall Allen, winner fights the Gator!

I personally am thankful for both of these men's posts and learn so much from both. I wish you guys could just agree to disagree. This Cancer thing sucks enough, why get fired up over a difference of opinion. Am grateful for you both!

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I do not knock Tall_Allen's medical advise, even though sometimes he is practicing Medicine--I give my own ideas on Medical Advice, and cover some of his subjects--but he knocks anything that he himself does not agree with--things that come from Posts from Patrick [pjoshea13] and myself.

I have never read where after Tall_Allen gives a response as a provider of Information---where he makes the claim that he is not a Doctor, and is just giving information based on his Opinion Only---and that the Papers he sites is not Gospel. As only God is in Control, and knows the truth. I do not need Allen to be a believer, but he does not have to go after every word or thought that does not suite him. Read his responses--he has set himself up as a final authority. Where I do not--as I am just reporting--and ask people to do their own research. And again I might be a Doctor--but I am always saying I am not a Medical Doctor, do you see this difference?

Nalakrats

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You can take this for what its worth. I am not answering anyone here because there is a definite adverserial difference of opinion and we are getting a little grid locked.

Anyone with advanced PCa is a hero period. Not because he has it but because he is fighting for his life.

One point...Dr Paul Erhlich found a cure for........... and was staining spirochettes with a certain Stain(dye) It developed that he noticed the spirochettes were less motile. Was it the stain? It was and it also was a cure for a dread disease. sometimes a paltry accident provides a cure. Who are we to define where it may come from?

We are still the same researchers looking for a cure and if snake oil works give me snake oil.

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Boys! Boys! The interesting thing to me is that we are able to have the discussion on such a Platform! My heart goes out to all Prostate cancer sufferers who died before such open and vigorous debate could even have occurred. Count your blessings all!

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Cesanon (thank you, sir) defined the “straw man” argument.

I’m a proponent of the “tin man” argument. Even when we disagree, please do it with a heart, and with civility. We men of Health Unlocked are all different, but one thing we all have in common is that we’re all staring down a wicked witch with an army of flying monkeys, intent on killing all of us.

As I have told several newbies in here, read what our members have to say, sharing their knowledge and research with the rest of us, then, like all good medicine, chase it down with a grain of salt. As far as new ideas, drugs, treatment protocols, supplements, and dietary suggestions, be open to them but be skeptical. Take what you have read, try to find something contrary to it, and do your own research to reach your own conclusions. What might work for one of us won’t necessarily work for all of us.

For example, I have a friend from my hometown with PCa who had prior surgery to remove his prostate and is no experiencing a rising PSA. He found a clinic in Mexico called CHIPSA that, among other things, uses a “drug” called Apatone (basically a mix of Vitamin K3 and Vitamin C) which underwent some human clinical trials in 2007, with inconclusive results. I am very skeptical that this clinic and “drug” is just a money machine selling snake oil, and I expressed my concerns to him. Their treatment is very expensive, it is not FDA approved and not covered by Medicare or any private insurance, and you have to go to Mexico at least once.

Anyway, that’s my two cents worth. For better or worse we’re all riding the same train. Let’s avoid petty arguments and try to get along.

Best wishes to all of you!

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"We're all staring down a Wicked Witch with an army of flying monkeys, intent on killing all of us."

Has my wife now subscribed here?? Yikes!

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Nope.... it's my ex wife....

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Sunday 10/21/2018 11:00 PM EDT

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Thank you for your posts Nal and Patrick. Whereas Bitter Melon is a common table vegetable in many parts of the world, perhaps those seeking the FDA's blessing for bitter melon should give up all fruits, vegetables and other foods until they recieve the approval of the seemingly corrupt FDA.

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I am weak on the scientific evidence but one of my friends is an Indian and one of the leading infectious disease doctors in the world. She told me that bitter melon is routinely used in India for various natural treatments. She believes it has a benefit for diarrhea and other common maladies and states that it certainly cannot hurt. As a result, she has ordered some for me from an Indian source. She says she prefers the melon in salad but that the liquid form as a supplement would be the most effective.

For years when I went to Dr. Myers it seemed that he had a new drug or supplement to add to my care. I never questioned him and he explained all carefully, In remission for over ten years, I have to believe that what he told me to take was effective.

superheat12

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For over 40 years the FDA has done it's best to put the Health Food industry out of business at the request of their financial backer Big Pharma. Luckily Congress has not fallen for this cheap trick-so far. Big Pharma is currently trying to turn two supplements into drugs because why should something helpful to man be selling at less than a gazillion dollars a year?

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Lions and tigers and bears, oh my! You ALL have made my expected dreary Saturday morning very enjoyable. I not only picked up some pca information but was extremely entertained on the way. 100% rotten tomato score. (Neither I nor the FDA recommend the use of rotten tomatoes in the treatment of pca). I congratulate all of you gentlemen. You most certainly make the world go round.

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Once and for all.... I AM NOT A DOCTOR! I'm just a mensch who loves humor...

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Sunday 10/21/2018 11:04 PM EDT

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Have some Lox and a Bagel on me--with capers and red onion. It will increase your humor.

Nalakrats

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Excuse me Nalakrats but.... I've been eating bagels and lox for years but I've always wondered "which are the bagels and which are the lox?" Thanks.

Good Luck and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 10/22/2018 6:12 PM EDT

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I left out Philly Cream Cheese-if you are not a Jew I will Adopt you.

Nalakrats

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I'm a goy... but a Shabbos goy... So Dad here's a question for you. Why did God make Christians?

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Monday 10/22/2018 7:03 PM EDT

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So they could be grafted into the Olive Tree[The Jewish Believers, so that all men can be saved---both Jew and Gentile]. And God needed the Gentiles to further the Evangelizing of the Nations, as the Jewish people started doing it poorly. The rough definition of a JEW, is an Evangelizer for God. Truly in the end of end days as described In the Book of Revelations--the Last Evangelizers left will be 144,000 Jews 12,000 form each or 12 tribes. Amen. I do not have time to teach on subjects like this--as Pca is enough to be working on for the folks here.

Nalakrats

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Great response but no cigar. ANSWER: "someone has to pay retail".

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Monday 10/22/2018 7:23 PM EDT

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As you surely know--I do not pay retail---Period.

Nalakrats

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