Testosterone Total = 20ng/dl

[Jeff54]

I've been on Hormonal Therapy next month 5 years.I have never had my testosterone checked and the test showed it is 20ng/dl. Is this good or bad?

[Tall_Allen]

It is very good. 20 or less is considered ideal.

[whatsinaname]

In these 5 years that you have been on hormonal therapy, your doctor/s did not ask you to take a testosterone test even once ?? Till just now ??

Btw, how many times did you take a PSA test in these approx 5 years of hormonal treatment ??

Yes, from what I have learnt, 20 is a very good score indeed. Cheers !!

[Jeff54 in reply to whatsinaname]

Yes thats correct! As long as my PSA was < .1 he saw no need to check the testosterone! If you look at my posts you will see that I am a13year and 4 month survivor! I was diagnosed on 1-7-2005! I own my life to this Oncologist! And my PSA will be the same when I get my test results in about 3 more days! How is that for positive thinking!

[whatsinaname in reply to Jeff54]

There is an interesting post titled " ADT failure and measuring testosterone" on this board posted about a year back by AlanMeyer. Worth a read, imho.

Cheers, Jeff54 !!

[arete1105]

During those 5 yrs, how bad, if any, were your hormonal symptoms due to low T?

[Jeff54 in reply to arete1105]

Not that bad I had hot flashes but they dont bother me at all! I walk a lot too! Because of that Im not tired! I walk about 350 minutes a week! Each day a walk 2-3hours! Friday,Saturday and Sunday!

[Lombardi24]

Low testosterone is THE worst side effect we have to deal with. 😑

[Jeff54 in reply to Lombardi24]

You said it and shrinkage too! I hate that most of all!

[Lombardi24 in reply to Jeff54]

That and the lack of build up from horniness. Yeah...pretty much hate all of it.

[Hidden]

Excellent. I am shocked that you are not tested for T every time that you have a PSA; which for me was months for two years, then quarterly for ten years, and now every 120 days for the past two years.

Keep up the good work.

Gourd Dancer

[whatsinaname in reply to Hidden]

Indeed. Absolutely amazing that a person on ADT is not asked to test testosterone levels for close to 5 years. Unbelievable almost.

[Patrick-Turner]

I don't know what the meaning of 20ng/dL is because I'd need to know what the range is for normal. I had a Testo measure after 6 month pause in ADT after late 2010. I had level of 20 within a "normal range of 8 to 38 units. I was 63, and cycling real fast for my age at that time, but while on ADT from 2013 to now, Testo level was less than 0.5 units, and it seems that was coming from adrenal glands and despite being low, it is plenty to keep many Pca cells alive and well, and even growing a bit, even though nearly asleep.

If you have been on ADT for more than 3 months, Testo should be real low, but what is Psa?

The good or bad assement can only be made if all the known relevant facts about your Pca are known.

For me, ADT gave me hot flushes and after some years by 68, the flushes ceased and I had all sexual function externminated - except I have wonderful dreams about rooting shielas and having nice lifetimes with them. I get erections, but Rodger is full of fibroids, so is short, points to toes, and has not the slightest pleasure ability. There is not much point to measure my testo because its at rock bottom.

On my bicycle, no other 71yo fellows can keep up, and they have full bottle of testo.

I prove a man does not need testo, but of course it was not what I ever wanted to prove, but the bad about that is eased because who on earth would I be having sex with now if I had full amountof testo? All the women I see over 50 have "paused from men",who have become an irritation to them, aka they have the menopause, and are desireless.

Apologies to those ladies who are over 50 and still doing it. Congratulations instead

[zenbee13 in reply to Patrick-Turner]

My brother we none of us wanted to prove what we can and are living with, and I salute (but never again with a stiffy) all of us for our every day valor!

[Patrick-Turner in reply to zenbee13]

To Jeff 54 and others.

There is a good about testosterone at artofmanliness.com/articles...

If you have 20ng/dL, your testo is very low, and about 1/30 of the normal level for Jeff 54, so the ADT is working OK it seems, But as time goes by, the Pca cells learn to make more testosterone receptors to catch the small amount of testo flowing past in blood stream, and not only that, the cells learn to make their own testo, called dy-hydro-testosterone which is 20 times more powerful than the normal stuff in your blood.

Sooner or later, ADT fails, and Psa rises, and ten you have a terrible battle ahead.

To Zenbee, I have to admit I never laid a keen lady cyclist. Often they are just strange sheilas, two in their 40s showed up for rides with blokes at local Pedal Power sunday cycle group here.

They rode for maybe 10 years, and were in good physical condition, but one was anorexic and the other admitted she was nervous and anxious, and as far as anyone knows, they never bonked anyone. One was a Group Leader, the other was Secretary of Pedal Powerr oganistation for some years.

But last time I rode with this group I never saw either of them and I think the menopause hit, which can make women's interest in doing anything physical evaporate.

What shielas go through when estrogen ceases can be far worse than being chemically castrated for Pca treatment, Ie, ADT.

But during all my time on ADT since 2010, I've kept cycling, and might marry the bike soon because I can go for a ride any old time I like.

Patrick T

[j-o-h-n in reply to Patrick-Turner]

To P.T.

Don't have sex with a female cyclist, you definitely don't want to have sex with a woman who pedals her ass all over town. Sorry couldn't resist that old joke.

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 07/10/2018 1:19 PM EDT

[Break60 in reply to Patrick-Turner]

Haha so true! We get less attractive as we age as do women . That’s why our sexual drive is high in our teens and 20s then starts to wain over time but still exists a lot longer than females. That’s why men jerk off as they become unable to attract women who at the same time Lose interest in sex way before do men. As long as a man can have a orgasm he’s good to go ! Us poor bastards on ADT have our sex lives cut short and it’s tough to live with until we accept it and get on with our new normal!

[Patrick-Turner in reply to Break60]

I found it so easy to say goodbye to Rodger. Don't worry folks, If I do marry my bicycle because I get to ride it whenever I can ride it, then there's no wife around who might get jealous. But despite what many women claim, they do lose interest in sex, and thousands are online screaming to find a man, and when I contacted them through the dating agency they all said no, or didn't respond, so sex for many older ladies is the unreal business of saying they want sex, but never actually having it. That's about as much empowerment they can give themselves. Very few ride bicycles, and at the last social ride last Saturday, with 5 men and 3 ladies, two sat beside me at the social time at coffee stop and it seemed as if I did not exist, and made no eye contact. How boring is that? Could not converse with men. None could keep up with me, despite my being speed limited by medical stuff. One had bike with electric motor, and still could not keep up on a hill. So it seems they like us being there, rather than riding alone, but really, who is out to get 'em in Canberra on the cycle tracks here? Its the safest place in the world. I've been on many rides where a few females turned up in a group of mainly men, and to mention sex in any way whatsoever seems to be offensive. So I know when to STFU. But then when young they wanted more sex than I could give, but they rarely ever talked or joked about it; sex was just wanted and had, and a man was man of the moment or not, and then be discarded without any explanations. For all ladies I ever knew, they were poor communicators, found I said too much, and how could they talk about emotions when they changed hourly?

On the other hand, I know a older lady maybe 60 who is good at therapeutic massage, and she does not mind trying rub the pain out of my arse where right gluteus max has a problem and there's another problem with a sore spot in top front of femur, both maybe from 20grey EBRT I had last July.

The sore area may never get any better because its radiation affected, so the beautiful long 100km rides I was doing last year easy-peasy are now impossible.

I also very much like my female dentist of about 45, from Vietnam. Highly skilled, no clumsy man fingers in my mouth, very perceptive, knows when she's hurting me, I been seeing her for nearly 10 years now, and so I have not lost any more teeth.

There are some beautiful ladies posting here who care for their men when they are in trouble, something I have never experienced.

I'll cycle a bit today and just put up with the slight pain that does not get much worse or better. A bit strange, but I'll get Pearl my massage lady to rub on Sunday and that'll help.

Patrick Turner.

[Brightman]

I have been on ADT for 2 years and every 3 months I have blood tests before I visit my oncologist. Each time he has said that that my psa is less than 0.01 and my testosterone levels are where they should be at 20.

[whatsinaname in reply to Brightman]

Don't you get to see your blood test reports yourself ?

[Brightman in reply to whatsinaname]

Initially I got the reports but they were basically the same each time.

[whatsinaname in reply to Brightman]

Thanks, Brightman. Cheers !!

[William123Cooper123]

I have been on ADT (Lupron) now going into the 7th year. PSA test every 3 months, and through the 7 years, PSA (0.00):

• But scans showed a few “hot spots,” specific lesions in a vertebrae (painful), 4 on liver, one on the adrenal, plus pain in the shoulder-blade bone.

• Doctor indicates that the prostate cancer is being controlled really well into hibernation by the ADT, so we wait for ??? Continue with Lupron and wait.

• We could do other “things,” but currently the quality-of-life is better than it would be with chemo or further treatments.

• But the side-effects from the Lupron are getting worse (terrible fatigue, depression), and am on pain Managemnt (opioids) for the bone lesions giving me a “happier life.” The meds also help with anxiety and the depression.

—————-

As the oncologist and urologist have told me: “You are in very good health, but the prostste cancer will eventually kill you.” So we are not going with more invasive treatments that will progressively reduce the quality-of-life. And the narcotics help through cycles of difficult times. My treatments all centers around two goals as I know that I won’t be getting out of this alive:

• To he happy.

• No pain.

[Hidden in reply to William123Cooper123]

I'd get a 2nd opinion. Your treatment seems very passive. Others on this site have talked about chemo, zytiga, and other aggressive treatments beyond run of the mill ADT, particularly when you have mets that are requiring pain meds.

[William123Cooper123 in reply to Hidden]

Insurance:

• With PSA (0.00), according to guide lines, there is no prostate cancer progression. Won’t pre-certify more expensive treatment that will do the same with PSA.

• If the cancer cells have changed into neuroendocrine cells that do not produce PSA ... it’s cell-killing chemo time ... there goes the quality-of-life?

• I’m 74 years old and don’t want to go through “treatment hell” in my remaining years. Progression of cancer through reoccurrence ... the progression of narcotic strength will give me a “happy life” in the remaining days.

• One treatment plan after another ... when that won’t extend my life (too long), will not be cost effective, and switching from one hell to another hell... I opt for the no-strings-attached availability for the increases, as needed of opioid medications.

————

Wow! Dudes with Prostate Cancer have so many options, so many directions both physically and emotionally ... with out the treatment that cures (palliative), all roads lead to Rome. Opioids ... have a smile on your face.

————-

Too many emotional, ethical, moral, physical/emotional, and addition perspectives surround the use of narcotics ... I am not Superman, am not Iron Man ... my only two goals:

• No pain, and

• To be happy.

============

I did get two Second Opinions ... (3 opinions in all) my treatment is appropriate, and for this period of time is keeping the cancer under control, even with the lesions, and pain, it is not progressing ... the Big Guns will be used later as an option.

[Break60 in reply to William123Cooper123]

Try estradiol; much better than SOC adt!

[j-o-h-n]

TO: William123 and to: Cooper123

"To be happy". That's the Tude, Dude.

Good Luck and Good Health.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 07/10/2018 1:25 PM EDT

youtube.com/watch?v=y6Sxv-s...(Not working as expected?)