10 Modalities to Fight Metastatic Pca

The following 10 approaches can be considered in an overall war against Metastatic Pca

1] Alter the PH, of Pca cells

2] Upset the cellular electrical balance of Pca cells

3] Erode the outer shell-like coating of the Pca cell

4] Chelate the metallic ion[ Cu++] that is part of the physical make-up of certain Pca


5] Oxygenate[saturate] the blood on a daily basis

6] Use many Anti-oxidants, that will act as free radical scavengers

7] Keep all pertinent Hormones in check[T, DHT, E2]

8] Eliminate Galactin-3 and Hyaluronidase a protein and enzyme that allows Pca cells to congregate[stick together, to metastasize], and to[ transport] themselves to

bone and organs

9] Use of many natural supplements, that we have research papers on that cause

death to Pca cells in Test Tubes, and in Nude Mice[in vivo, and in vitro]

10 Exercise vigorously a minimum of 3-4 times a week, for an hour--1 1/2 hours. Use

the next day to rest and take in some sun, and do deep breathing exercises

No guarantees of offsetting the onward push of mPca--but I try to follow this program with or without Doctors inputs.


74 Replies

  • great advice...

  • Hi Nal,

    Thank you very much for this useful info. Would you mind further explaining how to accomplish some of those, so the scientifically ignorant (very much including me) would know in detail what to do?


  • I would be advocating, the taking of certain materials internally, I would have to think about it. Since I get a lot of attention here, on this site, some brought upon by myself, I would not want people to start taking a whole lot of things while being treated with other things/drugs/methods by their doctors. I would have to add a bunch of disclaimers. I need to not get myself in a situation, where I am inferred to be playing Doctor--even though I say I am not one.

    Those really interested can research the 10 topics, like I did. I was just pointing out an attack, must be multifaceted and I do not even know if it is what keeps me going and undetectable as to PSA. When I have my CTC blood test I might be able to say more. Because there will be proof, in the counting of circulating Cancer Cells, and not relying totally on a PSA, which cannot measure refractive Pca cells.


  • Hi Nal,

    I understand your caution. How soon is your CTC blood test? Is that a test that you think advanced PCa patients who are not receiving it should as their med onc for?

    The value of exercise for almost everyone is undeniable. Nal, you've chosen to advocate for several things that will not be familiar for most of us. I, for one, could not research them as competently as you did, & I'm not likely to try. On the other hand, I would be very interested in exploring them if you gave me & others in our forum more of a road map. Since you've done the research, & understood what you were reading, & decided to give us this list, I'm sure many of us will be interested in the specifics of pursuing these recommendations.

    You should include all the disclaimers you wish. If you were in the Yahoo group, you saw Chuck Maack providing use information over & over, with his standard disclaimer at the end. If you think guys should check anything with their doctors to make sure they're consistent with the medications they're on, just say so.

    You & Patrick, in particular, provide invaluable info that few if any of us get from any other source. Most of us don't have the skills or time to do further research on what we hear from you. So the more specifics that you can provide, the better. And I know I speak for many others when I say that I'll be extremely grateful.



  • Neil, before I can go further, I put out what I did to soon prove the value of doing anything, other than agreeing to do what the doctors recommend.

    We rely on PSA's and the moment we feel pain, to run and get Scans, to monitor, and try to control our Pca.

    I want to prove that I have eliminated most, some, or none of the Pca cells that were left after surgery. No one can tell me what I have left. For all I know I took a bunch of things, tried to whack the Pca cells on their heads, and accomplished nothing. And the only thing working is ADT. Or have I succeeded in killing most or all of my Cancer. A PSA test every 30 days only tells me that nothing is awake, or alive, or dormant. but are they still alive. Do they still exist.

    I want to count the cancer cells that are in my blood. This will tell me what is left, or what never went. Only then can I go further, and endorse, or not, the 10 Modalities.

    I am a good subject for this upcoming test.


  • Neal-Snyder -- Don't knock yourself out trying to research Nalakrats' 10 modalities because there is no clinical proof for any of them except for #7 (androgen deprivation) and #10 (exercise). If you pursue any of the other modalities, just be aware that you are just experimenting on yourself. As Nal admits, all of these things (except for #7 and #10) "may have accomplished nothing."

  • Hate to break your bubble, but in terms of eliminating Galectin-3, USA Phase 3 trial Israeli Phase 2 test. The previous phases that led to the current tests, and there is measurable proof of arresting of Galectin-3, definite Apoptosis, reduced PSA.

    I purposely did not want to define materials--so as to not cause disagreements.

    I choose this one as an example. I am not about to defend available modalities. And I am not a Doctor, or advocating anyone do those things mentioned. Have a nice day.


  • Nal you are forthright with all the info. you researched in fighting pc and a great resource. You and patrick back up your research well and we all can make our own decisions. We are not playing doctors but informed consumers who I've seen learn from us. Rocco

  • Nalakrats -- Having searched clinicaltrials.gov, there is not one single clinical trial using inhibitors of galactin-3 in prostate cancer. Please provide us with a reference to the clinical trial to which you refer. And to be clear, the mere existence of a Phase III trial in oncology should not be construed as proof that a compound is effective. Only 13% (some statistics say only 8%) of Phase III trials in oncology actually get FDA approval. That's a very high failure rate approaching 90%.

  • Mr. Star---you can Google [Pectasol-C, and Clinical Trials], and read for an hour or 2. And you will find CTrials.Gov, and others. And this material is approved as a food, and does not need FDA approval. The Israel trial can be found the same way. And by the way, effectiveness is always based on individual mutations, and Pathologies. So we have never found anything that is 100%, but if 40% have a positive effect, even 20%, it is up to an individual to make their own choice. That is why, I said this is what I do. I did not ask anyone to follow me. I put things out for information only. I have a life to live. you know!

    Here is another ditty for you: If DX with Prostate Cancer, one can take a suppository dipped in 1% solution of EDTA, stick is up your ass for 2 days and about 50% of the men will see a 50% reduction in their PSA. The Power of Chelation, actually pulls the copper out of the cancer cells, thru the anal wall, and into the suppository---we do not know yet what it all means yet--but Copper Chelaters have been used for BRCA-2/stage 4 Breast Cancer, with a 20-30% success rate. Something happens to the cancer when you take their copper away. Something else you can research.


  • Len,

    I think Nal is referring to MCP (modified citrus pectin)

    There are some studies in mice but almost all were run or funded by "Dr" Elias the guy who sells the product. Dr. Myers said the stuff was worthless but did cause extremely deadly odorous gas. Nal being an avid fisherman puts this side effect to good use. He sits on the edge of his rowboat with his butt in the water and lets loose...within minutes dozens of dead and dying fish float to the surface.


  • Meyers was not always right in his assumptions. Go to Google, put in {Pectasol-3 and clinical Trials}, and you will also find other articles on the subject. The Israeli test is top notch. They started the ball rolling, and then the NIH, jumped in. Now I see others doing trials.

    Listen, not all Meyers positions are 100% correct, as mine are not either. But one of my doctors had to step in, after Meyers almost killed 3 patients. He did not give them Gator Blood---Now that I am back with some Shark blood, I will begin mixing the two,


  • Nal,

    you got that right about Myers...but he treated mainly advanced PCa and was in a good position to evaluate supplements his patients were taking because he was monitoring the results based on progression.


  • He did great work 90% of time. He is/was never infallible. That is the point I am making. He is not God. Just a great oncologist. And i am just as right---but only 10% of the time. But continue research, and experimentation. Shark Blood is the new Gator Blood.


  • LMAO, Gus!

  • "Galectin-3 is a signaling molecule that is involved in tissue growth and repair. This is beneficial in youth, but galectin-3 levels rise with age, and by midlife, galectin-3 may represent more of a threat than an asset. Higher galectin-3 levels serve as markers for elevated cancer risk, cardiovascular disease risk and severity, and kidney disease.

    Galectin-3, however, is not simply a marker of disease. Scientists have now shown that galectin-3 is an active player, triggering the harmful changes that characterize each of these conditions. Studies show that inhibiting galectin-3 can markedly reduce, and in some cases reverse, dangerous tissue changes induced by the molecule.

    Modified citrus pectin (MCP) is a natural product that inhibits galectin-3, shutting down its ability to communicate with target cells. In the presence of MCP, cancer cells lose their heightened survival and reproductive abilities, as well as their capacity to spread (metastasis); heart tissue undergoes less of the dangerous remodeling that is typical of heart failure following a heart attack or sustained stresses from high blood pressure; and kidney cells become resistant to formation of fibrosis that impairs kidney function.

    The future likely holds much more promise for modified citrus pectin as we gain knowledge about galectin-3 and its ubiquitous role in disease. For now, it makes sense for certain individuals to add this supplement to control aberrant galectin-3.

    A typical high-dose is to take five grams of MCP powder three times a day for several months, and then reduce to five grams once a day. Some people will only take MCP during specific time periods, and then discontinue.

    MCP should be taken away from meals, i.e. on an empty or almost empty stomach"

    Note: PectaSol which has a lock on the most assimilable form of MCP would cost $93.00 a month (from Life Extension), if one were to take the recommended dose of 15 grams a day.

  • Thanks, for your confirmation--I was aware of your post's info---but did not get into the weeds. I did in an initial post about a year ago. But your up-date was most appreciated by me, and I hope others here, check it out, if they did not read my initial post.

    For your Info--I have maintained the 5 grams 3 times a day, for 14 months--just got another delivery today from Vitacost. Amazon was selling it for 74 dollars, But all of a sudden everyone's price is the same. I do get a 10% discount from Vitacost, almost every month--had to leave Amazon, as Vitacost ships me in one day---for free. I am a good customer.


  • Oh I forgot, in these tests, angiogenesis was halted.


  • What ever happened to Chuck Maack

  • Who is chuck, or am I in a Modality fog.

  • Burnett1948. Thanks Nal very much. I have read your information and the replies. I await your further info. But can you tell me what are "refractive Pca cells", which I assume PSA can't measure; assuming I've got that correct?

  • Correct, refractive Pca Cells, are cells that are not dependent on T, DHT, or E2, for life. Some can survive, past certain Chemo's. When isolated in bone Mets we can get them with radiation. Initial radiation after RP is unknown. Because we measure PSA. They are hard to kill. I have never read what they use for food. I assume with, little knowledge, that they use sugar, and they may be able to take in Cholesterol, and convert this to T. Or other fats bases on Palmitate.

    They divide by internally splitting its nucleus in half, followed by spitting the cell in half, creating what we call 2 daughter cells--each having their own nucleus, which was originally one. We do know they are late in showing up, or growing, compared to those Pca cells that are dependent on Hormones, and can be determined by PSA tests.

    They usually[?] start growing, sometimes 2 years out--give or take, and we know they use the enzyme Hyaluronidase to allow them to transport themselves to bone. We call this the transportation enzyme. Even if he can eliminate Hyaluronidase, one cell can make the trip to bone thru the blood, set up a tent, and signal other cells to come and join, one cell at a time, if need be. They have a way to signal each other. Really Hideous!

    These cells are almost totally not of earth, as they have one mission which is to kill the host, and themselves. Really Hideous!

    Thus one of my Modalities is to eliminate Hyaluronidase, and Galectin-3 which allows these gangsters to congregate on street corners, by sticking together, as a gang, to develop further by angiogenesis. They build their own blood supplies, and highways, where they spread out to other body sites. Now Hormone Dependent cells can also spread by angiogenesis so eliminating Galectin-3 can keep them in check, according to some research.

    I went a little far, but wanted you to get a hint that we are dealing with something, mankind has not figured out, how to win against this disease, in the last 40 years of research.


  • Burnett1948. Nal thank you very much for your information and explanation.

  • Eliminating Hyaluronidase & Galectin-3 sounds like a potentially immensely important thing to do. Are there any meds designed to do this?


  • They are not Meds--But natural substances.


  • What Nat substances?

  • Many I have written about over the last 15 months.


  • Hi how are you im going naturally and wondered what supps you are referring to thank you and for your amazing contribution to this site :)

  • Unfortunately I agree with your hideous description of Pca's nature with no cure..I also agree with following your heart in use of remedies , nothing ventured nothing gained, you are highly informed from my viewpoint.Thanks for the info!!

  • Thanks for the thumbs up.


  • Numbers 1, 2, and 5 might also contain opportunities for patients to be exposed to some advertisements for some things that are not approved for use or treatment by the US FDA, some of which may have their origins going back to the 1930s. Things related to serum/urinary PH & diet, serum glucose, decades of ozone/oxygen devices and sales pitches, and similar devices and claims involving electricity, magnetic fields, and either the addition or depletion of various metals or substances by supplementation or chelation have a long history of questionable efficacy, or downright quackery, in the cancer context. Exercise caution for any treatments, supplements, diets, or devices that have not been validated by an FDA approval process involving supervised Clinical Trials, or a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd opinion by your doctors.


  • Oops. Thank you for the useful warning, Charles.


  • You are referring to old kids stuff, I am talking about 21st century technology.

    Do not know where or what you are reading--as I never defined specific materials,

    to be used. Just modalities. By not defining what materials can be used was supposed to eliminate uniformed arguments. IMO.


  • Remember all naysayers, I said at the end of my Post, there were no Guarantees, for offsetting the onward push of mPca. And that only I follow this program--and it is without any input from my integrative, Onc. or Uro, or Ronc. They know some things, I do. But I will make just one last comment. My program has evolved over 17 months. According to my Uro. and Ronc, I was suppose to be in Hospice last month. I had the highest post surgery PSA, ever seen, by these 2 considering my scans were clean. It was determined my Blood was overloaded with mPca cells. I guess God had favor on me.


  • Nal,

    I think Gator Blood saved you. You listed 10 things a PCa patient can do to fight PCa. I will bet a Gators Tooth you did most if not all the 10 before you got PCa but you still got it. Dr. Sartor said the 10 actions you listed may help prevent PCa but once you have it none of the 10 will work. One fact I am sure of you will not go to hospice...you are destined to sleep in Davey Jones Locker with a big female Gator


  • Great advice, obviously you have and continue to spend hours researching, guess you come from some scientific/medical training to give you a starting platform to do this effectively.

    It's very kind of you to share this great wealth of knowledge and experience so others might benefit. I am one who certainly appreciates your doing this

    Interesting, you reference for example ph interference in Pca. First I wondered , as the body I thought tightly regulates overall ph for health, how do you reach the ph of the Pca. I found a research paper that looks at this - he says:

    "Historically, the effect of extracellular acidosis had been thought to be transduced via acidification of the pHi. However, cells in general, and cancer cells in particular, have redundant and highly active proton exporting mechanisms to maintain the pHi within tight bounds (7.2–7.4) even in the presence of severe extracellular acidosis. An alternative view has emerged over the past decade that the extracellular surface of mammalian cells contains a number of acid-sensors, mediated primarily through expression of surface-accessible histidines. These receptors transduce signals to the cytoplasm and nucleus mediated by cAMP, Ca2+, and K+, to affect cellular survival, proliferation signaling and cytoskeletal remodeling. Clearly, this is an active and important area of basic research, with implications for normal physiology and pathophysiology."

    Have you found a way to utilize this or other way to put this ph for Pca into practice?

    Thanks again for all your help

  • Actually Podsart, the internal PH of a Pca cell is 6.7. The human blood will do what it has to to maintain a PH of 7.2-7.4. Cesium Chloride in years past has been effective for some men , in altering the PH of the blood up about to 7.8. But this is very dangerous, and needs to be done under a Doctors Supervision. I mean you can buy the Cesium, and try it yourself, but I would not recommend this as a way to kill yourself.

    In years past Sodium Bicarbonate, has been tried, and all it does is neutralize acid in your stomach.

    My approach is to take a very complex sugar, react it with X, so we produce a sugar with a Basic component molecularly bound to the sugar. The idea is upon consuming this sugarX, we want the Pca cell to see this sugar as food, and take it in and metabolize it, not knowing a Trojan Horse was attached---and upon consumption, our traitor is let loose, and because it is so extremely basic, it will react with the lactic acid in the Pca cell--as the Lactic acid is what maintains the cells PH of 6.7. Upon neutralization of the lactic acid the PH of the cancer cell will rise to 7.2, and die. At least that is the theory. I am getting certain blood tests soon, that are not on the normal Pca radar screen to try to prove this theory.

    Hope that adds to your info.


  • Thanks Nalakrats

    Very interesting and informative. Sounds like your "X" is something unique you found, that's great, perhaps you will able to patent it in the future.

    I wish you much luck with this, please let us know how it works out.

    I assume your CTC is different than the Guardant360 blood test I take, that says: "We search for tumor-DNA fragments among billions of cells"

    You mention using sugar for the Pca uptake. Dr Myers told me that Pca uses cholesterol rather than sugar that most cancers use. He points out that tests where sugar is used for scan, other cancers will light scan up but Pca remains dark on the image. Is he wrong or does Pca use both cholesterol and sugar?

    Have you looked into the PSMA method that attachs radioactive or chemo to agent that attaches to PSMA found only on Pca ?

    We are lucky to have you as your knowledge is quite unique -thanks for your help


  • There is no patent here. I am using the 40 years of chemistry research, I possess. I am aware of the radioactive lighting up of the Pca cells, and viewing them, under a microscope to count.

    Visit CellSearch.com---their method comes highly rated from my Geneticist. The test is performed by Quest. And they actually count cells per 7.5 Mls, which has become the standard of this newer technology. The results come with a charting, of your mobility rate--or OS. All counting methods give results /7.5 Mls.

    I have a Head of Prostate Research/clinical trials, at the Levine Cancer Institute, as my Oncologist---even though he does not have the expertise I have in Organic Synthesis chemistry---he understood what I was doing. And he is looking forward to proof. As I am. He did not deny that Pca cells make use of sugar. All body cells use sugar. That is why when your sugar levels are down the body will take stored glycogen, and convert it to sugar, for cellular energy.


  • Thanks for your kind and informative reply. I will look at site.

  • Do you mean:

    Levine Cancer Institute Leadership

    Derek Raghavan, MD, PhD, FACP, FRACP

    President of Levine Cancer Institute


    George L. McLendon, PhD

    Vice President, Therapeutic Research and Development

    As the Vice President of Therapeutic Research and Development, Dr. McLendon, is working across the System to advance translational research to improve the quality of patient care. He has been recognized by multiple national organizations. Dr. McLendon has co-founded several medical research companies and was the founding co-director of TMCx, the largest biomedical start-up accelerator. Before joining CHS, he served as the faculty and administrator at Rice, Duke and Princeton Universities.

  • You are obviously in the right Pew!!!!!


  • As to Dr. Meyers, why not research Sugar and Pca. Go to Google, and put in the search box----How does Prostate Cancer Use Sugar. You will be able to read for hours. Meyers is not a God. He experimented on himself, and found a pathway---for him. My country Doctor had to surgically save the lives of 3 of Meyers patients, as whatever Meyers was doing, was killing them---straight from the mouth of my Doc.


  • Found quest and life extension lab offer the CTC test, do you whether Medicare will cover it and what it costs outright?

  • Costs for cash is about 1,000 dollars. Medicare code is CPT-86152, which I checked with my supplemental, and they told me if Medicare has a code then they will pay the rest that Medicare does not. So I expect my cost to be zero. There is a code for the Doctor who orders the Test, and interprets to the patient, and it is CPT-86153.

    Already have a script, from my Doc. So this week, now that I am back from fishing, I will make an appointment, It is about a 25 minute drive to the right Quest Diagnostics Lab.

    By the way how do you know so much about Levine---do you use them, as I do?


  • Thanks again - no I looked them up, thought as I respect your opinion, might be worth seeing that doc, especially when we drive down and go through Carolinas. In the right pew, so close but so far

  • I actually inter-relate with a Doctor Burgess, who heads Day to Day Clinical trials. As he develops them and goes forward with approval, approval of all those V.P.'s


  • Where's the fishing part at? Very disappointed.

  • Ha. Ha. Yes, going fishing can have some medicinal qualities, too. I also enjoy hugging my spouse every now and then, and going on quiet walks, holding hands.

    I don't think it's just the Lupron talking. ;-)

    I appreciate all the work and effort Everybody here has put into researching a very wide range of alternatives for living well and coping/treating and healing the whole person who has advanced prostate cancer. We need it all, we need them all.


  • I work on this site at off-fishing hours---I am not night fishing tonight, as I have to go home tomorrow. No more fishing until September.


  • Amen


  • Yeah! War, baby.

  • You were the first man to step up, and understand what I was doing. I am at War. And I have 10 divisions of soldiers, fighting a real enemy. Some may not meet the enemy, some might fail. But in 6 months, I might have more divisions fighting, or will have given leave to others who failed.


  • And also you will have more special operators, rangers, seal teams, and marine recon units and predator drone strike capability to target those enemy G5 fanatical warriors , and when you flush them out bring in those warthog gattling gun air killers that terrorized saddams republican guard. Never surrender!

  • I am Trying---you can be sure of that. I do not want my wife to have to get on this site and announce that the Pca got me.


  • Nal,

    would it be alright for your wife to tell us when you visit davey jones locker for reasons other that PCa....drinking Gators Blood on a full moon is not without its risks


  • Nal,

    that is why you will beat PCa and win the war..I did 5 tours in Nam and made a reference to PCa, comparing it to the war in Nam,...some nameless posters were offended..even the U.S. Gov calls it a war on cancer...go " Mad Dog Mattis"...what ever it takes...Gator Blood...Shark Blood...Alligator Snapping Turtle Liver....I just added Komodo Lizard Tail


  • Well I did one tour, and Back in Port a Sailor came up behind me and called me a MFCS-Jew. So I picked up this 6'5" asshole up, after throwing him against the bulkhead, buy his shirt collar and belt buckle over my head and threw him 60 feet into the water. The MF--did not die. I was really disappointed.

    Anyway I was taken to the Captains Office. And he said to me, "you know sailor you could have killed that man". I answered, 'Sir that is what I intended to do, that no one is going to call me a MFCS-Jew". So he sent me to Roosevelt Island in New York City to be evaluated by a Head Doctor--who determined, that I should be written out of the service with an Honorable Discharge, that due to Anger Issues, about my Race of People that it would be best that I be discharged. I told him it was not really my fault--it was that I was drinking Gator Blood, and it made me mean.

    The above is of course is all true accept we had not yet discovered Gator Blood.


  • Nal,

    Never eat Kosher Gator Meat in front of the infidels


  • The new testament says that all given to us by God is good to eat.

    So the Jew now has 2 ways to go---follow Kosher, or follow Yeshua. Either is OK. How did you like my true Military Story---wild!!!


  • Nal,

    God told Moses the Jews are his Chosen People. With all the Jews have been through I sure would hate to be on God's shit list.


  • She has a pre-written obituary--to send to you all.


  • She seems a bit too eager, no??

  • Len,

    you sure got that right. Nal just told his daughter, Lizarda, that his wife, Anacondy, spiked his Gator Blood (BIRM) with antifreeze.



  • I only wish I had more of the scientific mind you have, Nalakrats, to better understand and further research the information you provide. I don't yet have an advanced prostate cancer diagnosis and with any luck, I won't. But my slightly educated guess is that the odds are against me. I'm trying to be as proactive as I can. I'm exercising much more and am eating almost 100% plants. I take quite a few supplements including curcumin, ginger, capsaicin, grape seed extract, alpha-lipoic acid, vitamin D, Vitamin K and a couple of probiotic formulas. I guess those of us who could use extra guidance in assessing risk vs benefits with supplementation are somewhat SOL. It's totally understandable that you don't endorse anything and don't make specific recommendations. I get that you're not a doctor. But it seems like you know a lot more about some things than a lot of oncologists do. I'm a poor guy and take what I can get, but my RO and urologist won't make any dietary recommendations at all. Looking forward to the good news I truly hope you learn from your pending blood testing, which I honestly don't fully understand. I will ask one thing specific. If YOU had a Stage II intermediate to high grade localized prostate cancer diagnosis with possible ECE, had finished EBRT without adjuvant ADT by a year and were waiting for it to continue doing its job, would you consider taking the BIRM supplement? Perhaps you'll prefer to think about answering that after your mentioned results. I totally understand if so. Thanks so much for your contributions here. Think of me as a non-scientific lurker. Maybe this initial post will get me started. Then again, I have some concern that a non-advanced patient may not be so welcome here. I just accidentally left this forum and then followed again. I've been lurking for awhile though, and also PM'd a bit with you a while back. Cheers!

  • Manatee--you seem to have a pretty good program as to supplements. I would recommend you thinking of taking Lycopene, to go with Capsicum--there are papers/research that shows it enhances the ability of Capsicum's abilities.

    Vitamin K, comes in many ways--I use Vitacost's Vitamin K complex---having both K1, and K2--K2 for help with transport in the presence of D3, of calcium to the bones, and K1, has shown itself, to cause Pca cells to split open its sides and spill out its nucleus, when in the presence of K1. This process of death is called Ocosis. Those that take K cannot be on certain blood thinners. Baby aspirin is OK. Alpha Lipoic Acid is a strong anti-oxidant, and few use it, but I do daily. The best form is R-Lipoic Acid. The standard ALA, is a mix of 50% R, and 50% S forms, the S is not bio-active---where R-Lipoic Acid is 100% bio-active. So I summarized a bit re: what you are taking. There are I believe stronger anti-oxidants, to be considered.

    As to BIRM it is too experimental at this point for most to consider. We have on this site those that like to experiment, they are looking, for remissions, and cures. I have no way of measuring the positive nature of its use. It did not drop my PSA, because it is dropped as far as it can go. We have one, 3 week use report of no PSA rise. That is not of value. I would like to see rising PSA's reversed, to falling. That would be exciting. No data of that yet. As for me BIRM, is reported to [possibly], shut down refractive stem cells that are in the blood, or can be reached in areas of the body thru the need of blood supply.

    Since we cannot measure them--these stem cells, it became a project, to find a way to count them. And today in about 2 hours I will be doing a blood draw for the CTC test, which in consult with my Geneticist, I have decided to do. My Docs. are scratching their heads--I understand why---they have never ordered the test. This scares me, as it has been around for 3 years. Everyone is married to PSA. Well there are plenty of real stories of men dying from Pca, with very low PSA's--what killed them---the cells that do not reveal themselves because they do not give off the antigen, and are not measured. These cells are like alien creatures from another world. They do not require the foods for fuel that our our other Pca cells require, they seem to be able to exist, in different envirormental ways that should not support their life. They are programmed, to kill the host, which causes their suicide. Wild!!


  • I value your capacity to think outside the box, Nalakrats. I hope your test results evidence good news for you. I look forward to your report.

    Nice of you to give some food for thought on some of the supplements I mentioned taking. I take the MK7 form of K2, but I clearly need to investigate adding some K1 into the mix. Concerning lycopene, as you undoubtedly know, some studies have shown that supplementation may worsen prostate cancer. I guess I'll first want to review what I can find to see whether the evidence that it helps or causes no harm is greater than the evidence it harms. I knew ALA was controversial, but it seemed to me that a modest dose (especially for as far out from radiation therapy as I am) might be more likely to help than harm.

    It sounds like BIRM might be more of a practical consideration if and when my cancer advances.

    A lot of my program is self-experimentation, of course. My risk tolerance is probably slightly liberal. I do realize and fully appreciate that severity of disease is going to be a major variable in one's risk tolerance. It's very exciting what is being learned, but much about these topics very clearly continues to be akin to the wild west. I try to make educated decisions toward the goal of preventing my cancer from advancing, but I know there are far from any guarantees. My layman brain can only comprehend so much, but I embrace the challenges.

    Thank you again for the thoughtful response.

  • ALA, is not an issue--But use R-Lipoic acid--it is twice the potency, as a anti-oxidant, it is second to Glutathione in my book, And Glutathione, is in a Pca trial. I do not know if it finished, or being used in some combination--I am a fan.


  • Also, the use of Lycopene--was proved to be not helpful, unless used together with Cayenne Pepper, where there are papers indicating, Lycopene increases the work of Cayenne. pjoshea, provided the research on this site.

    BIRM is still definitely an unknown---we have no proof--we have no reports of harm, but no proof of any benefit yet.


  • Such great info! I'll need to check into switching my lipoic acid formula and my Vit K formula, as well as adding lycopene and glutathione. New ideas to consider...this is what I was seeking and you've very kindly given me some.

    Probably not the right thread for it, but would be interested sometime in your thoughts on soy in the diet. My assessment so far is that whole soy and fermented soy are most likely very beneficial while processed soy (like protein isolate) is probably not. Soy sure is controversial.

  • Soy IMP, is not to be consumed. AS they are progenitors of Estradiol, which Pca cells, awake, enjoy for food. Brest Cancer Patients, are many times told to avoid Soy products--My wife is one. Reduce Glutathione is best if using, such as Jarrows product.


  • I thought some of the more recent studies were reversing the more traditional recommendations and were pointing to soy actually being beneficial for hormonal cancers. They seem to suggest that the type of estrogens in soy are not so dangerous, and because they bind to estrogen receptors, they block the dangerous kind. Something like this anyway, from my understanding. Michael Gregor for one has discussed this science. He says soy seems to be beneficial if kept under I think 3 servings per day. But I think he may be one of those that advises against consuming soy protein isolate, for some reason I don't fully understand. I do stay away from dairy and eggs. In fact, I'm almost completely plant-based now and because soy is such a quality protein source, I've embraced it cautiously. Your thoughts on any of this?

    Thanks to you, I'm getting ready to submit an order to Vitacost and the glutathione and NAS(?) I found you discussing elsewhere here are on it. Sounds like your saying it will work toward helping to mitigate any possible damage from soy?

  • Yes there is an argument/conversation on soy. Since Estradiol, is so insidious, I will not go near it. I am not arguing. My foot is down on this subject. I have posted, on a 1978 Study at the Prestigious Sloan Memorial Hospital. They had aver 200 prostates taken from men who had DIED, FROM, PROSTATE CANCER. They ground up the prostates and extracted them, with a solvent. They then shot the extract into HPLC[High Pressure Liquid Chromatography}, and a Mass Spectrometer. They found that every Prostate had an enormous very un-normal amount of Estradiol. The paper author, said they thought they were looking at female material based on the Estradiol, being so high. No one followed this paper, and did further work. The work died, and no Doctor I know of ever heard of it. But I have.

    So for me anything that might make Estradiol, as certain Soy products. and men that use estrogen patches to off-set the affects, of ADT, IMP, are playing with fire. I said in my opinion, not as a doctor, but as a published Research retired Chemist.


  • Because I respect and value your opinions, I'm forced to reassess what I had assumed about soy. I wonder if my increased use of it since my PCa diagnosis has harmed me. Can't change that, but can change the future. Since experts I respect disagree, I'll have to dive into the science and try to understand it better. Until then, I'm going to halt my soy consumption. Thanks for the heads up.

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