The NIH recognized this herbal as the Botanical of the year, in 2007, and mentioned it again in 2011and12. The NIH praised this Herbal, for its ability to treat 300 diseases. Moringa has the ability to deliver many enzymatically active amino acid sequences, that does not exist in any other food, herb, or botanical substance.

Moringa provides Zeatin[potent antioxidant], Quercetin[a flavonoid to neutralize free radicals], Beta Sitosterol[a cholesterol blocker], Caffroylquinic Acid[a powerful antioxidant], Kaempferol[which promotes, and corrects cellular function].

Moringa provides 36 natural anti-inflammatory agents. Its action cancels inhibition of telomerase, which causes changes to cellular permeability, and DNA damage.

According to Sloan -Memorials' Cancer Center Website, in vitro and animal studies indicate, leaf, seed, and root extracts, have anticancer, anti-inflammatory, Hepatoprotective, Hypoglycemic, antibacterial, antifungal, antiviral, and antisickling effects.

Some Homeopaths, recommend it for use against Pca in combination with other supplementations.

I myself have been using for months, as a part of my personal program. I am not recommending the use of Moringa. I am just reporting of another Herbal that appears to have health benefits.


63 Replies

  • Good morning NAL, interesting discourse especially given the problems with cancers generally of high inflammation. Could you tell us if your results have benefitted from this to date? I am extremely interested. David

  • Scruffy--the only thing I can say is that I have a Zero C-Reactive Protein blood test marker. And my best guess it is due to Zyflamend, Serrapeptase, Nattokinase, and Moringa. I am just reporting, and I do not recommend to anyone to indulge in what I do. I truly am throwing the Kitchen Sink, and Bathtub, at my disease, along with the my ADT-5 protocol. But for sure my Docs. are a bit stunned, as anyone my age should show some inflammation, due to arthritis, and some blood vessel inflammation, due to even minor arteriosclerosis.


  • Thank you NAL. I am not the impulsive kind trying everything rather I am fascinated by the progress of my disease and you have a handle on things that are beyond me until I sit down and study your Intel carefully. On May 9 my next PSa and long session with Onco for PSa and full blood count. Plus my questions as to prognosis (not that it's vital to me at this stage)


    (Scruffy was my deerhound pal for 15 years.). Current creature to keep me active is Barney the Saluki, 60 lbs of tearaway travelling at up to 50mph. I fail to keep up though I try. Regards

  • I think I have an handle, as I work against my personal Pathology, and DNA mutations, as well as trying to kill or keep in dormancy the PCA cells, that I still have.

    It is true , my Docs. think I am a bit obsessive, and do not sanction what I do. But we have an understanding, I have 50 years of experience with supplementation, and you Doc. have decades of medical experience, and I may or may not agree with you. Basically I am my own advocate.

    I run most of my own Drug Program, and my last Oncology Visit to the Levine Cancer Institute, I brought them two protocols that floored them, from personal research. So I am also researching into their area. I also have a Geneticist on call that is part of my team. So I am looking at the whole process. Some things I do not address here, as I am not a Doctor. But thanks for thinking I have a handle on some things.


  • Hi everyone. Like everyone here I'm a prostate cancer patient. I'm also a scientist. Please, as both a patient and a scientist, can I ask that you check information on purported remedies and treatments that have not undergone rigorous study? An internet search will bring you to Memorial Sloan Kettering's integrative medicine website on herbal supplements ( which clearly states: "There is not enough evidence to support the use of Moringa oleifera to treat cancer.

    " and "MO has not been studied in humans as a cancer treatment."

    Further on the MSK website they do state (with references):

    "In vitro and animal studies indicate that the leaf, seed, and root extracts of MO have anticancer.....effects"

    But this point is qualified by: "Only a few studies of inadequate design and/or small number have been conducted in humans. In one of these studies, MO did exhibit a positive but small effect on lipid profiles."

    Please note...few studies...inadequate design...and the only reported effect was on lipid profiles.

    There is no NIH 'Botanical of the Year". NIH ran a mystery plant contest for Earth Day in 2008 where they cited "Used as medicine by native peoples to prevent or treat over 300 diseases. Additional scientific studies are needed to confirm its effectiveness for these traditional uses." It was a contest...for fun...on Earth Day. (

    Statements like these are NOT endorsements from respected scientific bodies. They're calls for research.

    And we need more research - federally funded research. I was at the March for Science in NYC this Saturday. There were great speakers including Stage 3 colon cancer survivors. They pointed out how it was science that provided the cures that enabled them to be there on Saturday. And, as long as I have the bully pulpit, if we are to ever know whether MO or any other product has the potential to ameliorate any disease, we can't support a federal budget with such draconian cuts proposed across so many important research agencies.

  • DSalvito--At the end of my little ditty on Moringa, I could have brought to the party various use studies in India, Europe, and China. They all would have failed muster, as you as a scientist, and me as a 6 times published scientist would both agree. Failing Muster, would mean not going thru proper Phase studies, then approved by the NIH, NCI, or FDA.

    As I strongly noted, I was reporting on what little I found, and that I did not recommend anyone to consider taking. I have been taking for one year.

    What I found interesting is the type of compounds that would tend to have positive affects against Pca in a petri dish, such as the ones I described. The use of Moringa goes back to the time of the Egyptian Dynasties, and has been used all over that part of the world--the African/Asian splice of the planet, for decades. Provable reduction in inflammation, is a given. It is totally harmless. And many of us on this site look to reduce inflammation. Whether it is an anti-cancer Botanical or not, is yet to be determined. And I do not see where it is going to be investigated in the manner that would satisfy you or me.

    But, for me with stage 3b, at 73 years old, I do not have the time to wait for studies to be completed, if ever. I take Moringa for its Anti-inflammatory evidence, along with a Chinese Combo formula---called Zyflamend---now made here via a process I brought to the USA in the 1980's called super critical CO2 liquid extraction.

    I have individual proof as to Inflammation. That being one blood test Marker---the C-Reactive Protein Test. Not one of my 5 Doctors, having over 100 years of Medical Practice, has ever seen a Zero undetectable C-Reactive Protein Test. We have duplicated the test, and the only things I can explain to those Doctors of mine that are integrative practitioners, that is the list of supplements that are supposed to be anti-inflammatory. And they say, "keep on trucking". Now I use others, specifically Serrapeptase, and Nattokinase. And a recent paper established that PSA and C-Reactive Protein run together. If PSA goes up so does the C-reactive Protein, and the reverse is true, they both follow each other when going down.

    The important thing, is to just bring things , up as I stumble across them. Patrick does the long investigative papers. And there are times I ask him to research something. My case, due to age, pathology[ugly], and DNA Mutations does not allow for hanging around waiting for approvals, by various, entities. If something is determined to be GRAS[generally regarded as safe], and I see benefit in the components, due to my history of research on Polyphenolic Compounds in foods and botanicals, I make my own determination to use it or not. I NEVER RECOMMEND.

    Others can research something, I report on, on their own. As my purpose is to stay alive as long as I can with a high quality of Life. I am not a Doctor, I just play one at home. I do my own Clinical Trials so to speak.


  • DSalvito it's good to note your scientific concerns. As an incurable patient I am fascinated by the progression of my own disease and that of so many others in this Forum. I for one would never jump blindly into anything. I have two surgical consultants and four nurses in my family. I am under the care of one of the leading Oncos in the UK. My partner of 25 years, Shelagh, is a nurse. I have developed and managed hospitals and clinics in the UK. Yes my IQ is enormous. But I am astonished at how I have learned from my brothers here. We are not lemmings. God bless. David.

  • I agree as a Chemistry Teacher.

    Lets not fall into so called alternative treatments for ,especially Advanced PC.

    Taking some as addition,why not?

    Placebo effect might be a great helper!

    Cheers to this with a good red wine (Resveratrol)

    infused with Pomegranate seeds (Great Antioxidants)


  • Victor I recommend 2005 Carmenere from Chile. Have just finished another glass. The grape is the original from Bordeaux that created claret. Phylloxera decimated the bordeaux grape but 100 years plus later it was discovered hiding in Chile. David

  • I prefer Rothschild Lafitte preferentially a 1961 or a 1954. But I do not have that big Executive expense account anymore, and as I said I am now allergic. I use Grape seed extract, in capsule form.


  • Chateau neuf du Pape goes quite well with a big Mac.

  • Does it go with Gator, and now I will be heading to go shark fishing, at the Outer Banks---Shark also?


  • But of course, n'est pas?

  • Sil vous plait

  • Except one thing---cannot find a medico who can explain a zero c-reactive protein blood test at my age of 73. And I am a fan of Resveratrol, and Pomegranate. It is not a Placebo effect, as I feel nothing, and have been using for a year. It is measurable!

    Enjoy the wine. Wish I could--I am allergic to it. And a good Cuban Cigar would be nice, but I gave that up 12 years ago.

    My off of center Urologist cannot wait to be able to prescribe some THC oil for me--not yet legal where I live. Would have to travel a great distance to obtain. He thinks it would calm my obsessiveness, which I do not have. PCA has become a hobby for an old retired researcher, and natural healer. Hope to out live it and die of other natural causes.


  • Funding is my problem now too. But I do keep a moderate cellar and at 71 have been told I may drink as long as I do not drink to excess and fall over. That's OK. At my age I have taken to being seated when I drink.

  • Well God Bless---we always bless the grape and the bread, before eating.

  • Sounds great. I"ll try it with my cabernet for pleasure health and placebo effect which might be the actual cure raight in front of oue noses. Aii time in those clinical trials

  • Remember I am just reporting on this--but I do use it in my program.


  • The medical establishment is not satisfied that HIFU is a bona fide treatment for prostate cancer. They keep saying that they don't have ten years of results therefore HIFU is no good. I think they said that five years ago and I'm sure they will say the same thing ten years from now. How did RT ever get going and accepted? Ten years of trials? I don't even see HIFU trials. I chose HIFU over radiation after being told that prior TURP surgery made RP inadvisable. Six months post full gland HIFU surgery and I have no quality of life after effects. None.

  • Got your message loud and clear. They are still studying Chelation Therapy for Arteriosclerosis Disease, now going on since 1955. I did not wait---Someone did not have enough money to out pay the FDA. Did the therapy, and cleaned up the arteries, proven by Ultrasonic Sound Tests.

    I make my own determinations upon study, and will/may add to my program especially if cannot cause harm---GRAS--Generally Regarded As Safe--an FDA designation for unconcerned consumption.

    The FDA is rattled with corruption, has been for years--and they are payed off, when it is necessary by the drug and food industry. I know things.


  • don't criticize Nalakrats if you want to live. He will travel to your location with his 20 foot gator..7 critics have vanished in the last 30 days...I bought 3 bottles of BIRM to keep him from coming after me


  • By the way, I booked a Fishing adventure for 2 weeks at the Outer Banks of N.C. Night fishing brings up many a Shark if you have the gear and know what you are doing.

    So I thought I would get some Shark Blood, and add it to the Gator Blood, and then sup, on some Shark Fin Soup.

    Are you getting use to the taste of the Gator Blood. It is Ugly. This is what I do:

    While having a meal that I will take the Blood, I eat half the meal, and squirt a 2 Ml syringe worth to the back of my throat, bypassing most of the taste buds, then I finish my meal clean the syringe, and take my after meal supplements. I do have more energy, but I await your 30 day PSA test.


  • Nal,

    Wow the Blood is nasty stuff...don't count on me...when I went to Mayo 30 days ago they gave me a shot of Lupron with a PSA of .29. Located one spot on scan but could not confirm. So, the lupron is to see if the spot shrinks would would indicate PCa site and the plan is to treat with a shot of Sterotactic Radiation.


  • Sorry to hear you might need some radiation. But you are over that 0.2 number, which is what some say it is time for scans--glad you did.

    According to what I can find, once your spot is gone, the Gator Blood, should reduce the PSA, hopefully to Undetectable. From what I can find---30-60 days. That is if the Inventors are correct. Still counting on you, as others are using, but I do not have a list. You understand you had the spot before your Gator Blood arrived. The radiation, will probably take you to under 0.1 In PSA, or at least around there. It is possible all your PSA is related to one spot. You may go undetectable after the radiation, if you need it. Are you going to continue with the Gator Blood?


  • Also how many years are you out since DX.


  • Nal,

    I plan to continue on the Blood....I am 9 years out since DX


  • I have some more info, I have been digging. Will post the info tomorrow. It is good info--specifically to Pca.

    By the way did you ever reach undetectable---and how long did you keep it. I do not remember, are you using the Meyers ADT approach? If not, what was/were your protocols till now?


  • Nal,

    I had cryo to to clean up what the surgeon who performed RP left behind...was <.1 for 23 months then over last 9 months .1 - .29....was on Lupron for 12 months during cryo and other than that supplements for 9 you I believe the supplements slow PCa way on 4 month Lupron then in approx 3 months hit 1 detectable spot with Sterotactic radiation...also eating 4 lbs gator meat a day


  • So you are just on Lupron+ a rash of supplements. You are not using an ADT-2, or ADT-3, or 4. I use an ADT-5 protocol. But you have many more years than I do, with this disease.

    My guess is since you have a rising PSA--a tripling in 9 months, this indicates to me your Dormant Pca cells are waking up. Sometimes they start waking up after a year, sometimes 9 years, as in your case. A friend of mine had his wake up after 14 years.

    Since you are on Lupron, I am surprised you were not offered Casodex, to go with it, and then maybe use the DR. Snuffy Meyers approach, of adding at least Avodart--creating what we call ADT-3. As you know by reading my stuff I use an ADT-5 approach. Which is the above plus, I also add Proscar, and the Supplement DIM to prevent Estradiol formation. Of course all my Docs. think I am over doing it.

    Instead of shots, of Lupron, I use the Vantas Implant. It is put in your arm, takes about 5 minutes--eliminates needs for shots, and is good for up to 15 months, then you switch them out. Your Adrenals still make some T, so the Proscar, and Avodart, kind of take care of that. Nice thing about Vantas---no ups and downs, we call it steady Eddie--every day you get the same amount released. and is Medicare Approved.

    Is your T under 20 or under .2 depending on how they measure? Has it been measured?

    Anyway, the most important thing is getting that spot and bringing you back into the very low or Undetectable range. I would make an even odds bet, that cleaning up that spot, will drop your PSA to that 0.1 range again.

    I will post some more info on BIRM.


  • Nal,

    Mayo wants 4 months ADT before radiation.

    I also take Metformin, Avodart, Arimidex, and Cabergoline with Zyflamend and supplements for synergistic effect and added Gator Blood. Check out study below


  • I have just read this. See my new post on BIRM.

    WE are doing about the same things. One thing of I believe of value, is I have been using Pectasol-C 454 Gram Powder/per container. There are 2 Phase studies--Phase 2 in Israel, and a Phase 3 in the USA.

    The purpose according to the Israeli's, as I trust more than our USA people, test results show that Pectasol-C stops the over expression of Galectin-3--this protein allows cancer cells to stick together and form colonies, which then moves on to angiogenesis--kind of how your Pca got to your bone. Now the enzyme that allows transport, is Hyaluronidase, which Gator Blood is suppose to prevent as one of its reported attributes, besides, not allowing dormant cells to awake. Again reported! So if Pca cells that awake cannot form gangs, very well, and you take their motorcycles away, Intuitively, they should not be able to travel.

    Of course this is theory. But I am into this theory until proven otherwise.


  • One other question what was the lowest Nadir you reached as to PSA? It appears you took the regular test that does not go below < than 0.1

    I pray I can get the 9 years you did.


  • Nal.

    Never had ultra sensitive PSA test. I doubt you will ever die from PCa..your end will come from FGA (fatal gator attack). My PCa was never sleeping...I have TPCa (terminator) in I will be back. Came back after RP, SRP, and Cryo..but each treatment knocked it down so after 9 years PSA .29. IMO the way to beat dying from PCa is to prevent it from metastasizing to the bones. PCA needs the growth factors in bone to become a fatal disease. So, like whack a mole, each time it rears its ugly head you need treatment (surgery, radiation, or cryo) to beat it back down, and supplements to extend the time it takes to come back..If you want to avoid the morphine drip never let the PSA get above 2 without getting treatment to knock it down. I don't consider ADT to be an effective treatment (you are an exception because you stay on top of it and have backup strategies devised by you and your Docs), because it almost always leads to CRPC and then goes to the bones..once it is in the bones you can delay death by second line hormonal therapy or BAT but this usually buys 6 months and then when you enter a room announce "make way for the dead man".


  • Too Morose, that is what my main plan is to not let it land on bone. That is what the combination of Pectasol-C, and now Gator Blood, is for. Before Gator Blood there was no known supplement, or fully tested drug that would interfere with the transporting mechanism. If you prevent the cells from having driving privileges, and stop them from having more than one passenger in a car---you can maintain a durable remission. We know we can keep Pca cells from gathering together to form gangs, by removing their Galectin-3. But until Gator Blood, we could not stop them from driving one cell at a time. These cells signal, by telling other Pca cells where they are going. So if they cannot go in groups--because we took their ability to stick together away, supplementation like D3, and many others can cause apoptosis, while in a mode of movement thru the blood. If they are moving via the Lymph system, I am not sure. So I have been looking for a way to stop transport, and that is why I jumped on Gator Blood.

    Of course we have the nasty Pca stem cells, that do not care about ADT,or other things, and divide into daughter cells, seemingly without T or DHT, or E2 for food. Truly alien! Most of the time with very low PSA, the only time you know they are at work to kill you is to wake up one day with bone pain--and scan it. This is where BAT may be effective, after killing the bastards in the bone. Chemo is probably effective, but I will avoid it, to when I cannot, to attack Stem Cells.

    When you think about it we have 2 cancers, that one is Hormone Sensitive, and the other kind[Stem Cells], are not, and no ADT, or things like Xtandi, or Zytiga can really effect long term.

    Anyway my thought.


  • Nal,

    Guys like you don't die from PCa....the guys who get into trouble don't bother to educate themselves..about 90% according to my onco says he likes when I come in so he can put his years of schooling to work and have an intelligent conversation...I am sure your docs feel the same way...another example is Patrick...I think he is 12 years out...catch it early and keep your eye on the ball and you won't die from PCa


  • Did you read my Gator Blood Update? I lose my Uro, when I go deep. But my Onc. can stay with me, until I go really deep into body Chemistry---then I get ---that is interesting---I should look into it!


  • Nal,

    yes..I read your update...real good research...BIRM is probably the most effective single supplement out there. I put 2ml in V8


  • Great Idea--thanks.


  • Gus

    What is BIRM and where to get it in Canada?

    I live in Pacific North_West

    if not traveling


  • Supplement for PCa sold on Amazon

  • Will Study Paper later--off to play Bridge tournament

  • Hi Nalakrats,

    No PCa studies on PubMed.

    There are hits for "cancer", so I'm not dismissing it out of hand. However, we are lucky that there has been so much PCa research on botanicals. I take enough supplements & don't intend to look outside the PCa research box.

    But, for the man who takes everything ...


  • Patrick--understood--I am taking mostly for the compounds that are specific flavinoids--having recorded value against inflammation. Have been taking so long I have never included it as an anti-Pca supplement. Just as I do not mention my use of baby aspirins. All my Docs. do not see me as a candidate, for ADT vacations, IADT's, or BAT. They are all afraid to let my Pca loose--they are afraid that they may not get it back in the bottle. Thus my larger use than most. of supplements. My program works, as to timing, during the day divided between early morning before food, with food, 3 times a day, Empty stomach during the day, and before bed, on an empty stomach. I have an exacting protocol. Which allows me to add new ones and remove others, as more science becomes available. Have not reached the Event Horizon yet. Its gravity has not taken hold of me.

    In June at the Cancer Institute, I am going to ask them to draw blood for an Electron Microscopic evaluation of my blood, to see if they can find dormant Pca, cells, or Pca Stem Cells. I do not know if they can do this--but appears John Hopkins can, and others.


  • Nal,

    even when you reach the Event Horizon and go through, you don't know what is on the other side..could be a big lake full of you will think you died and went to heaven.


  • Well as I announced yesterday, I am going shark fishing and others, at the Outer Banks of N.C. So I plan to mix some Shark blood with the Gator blood, and down it after having Shark Fin Soup. I leave May 12th. I will have my computer and my 20 ft. Gator--so I will let you know how things work after bagging my first Shark.


  • Nal,

    check out the study below...might be a treatment you can have if your PSA starts rising...Mayo told me 3 treatments..will know more in 3 months


  • Get the scans..locate the tumor..and hit it...don't need larger area radiated


  • But you have to have a landed site, or a compilation of cancer cells in a spot that can be radiated. In your case your an excellent candidate. Right now I have no idea what is floating in my blood.

    I hear there is a nanogram filter that can catch and measure the amount of cancer cells in the blood. Kind of new and trying to find out if it can catch and measure dormant Pca cells, as well. Being Undetectable does not offer comfort. Knowing what I have in dormancy, and that added to non-PSA giving Stem Cells, circulating, and knowing, if that is a lot, or a little, is my next project.


  • When you were diagnosed didn't they locate tumor site


  • Yes it was in my Prostate--it was removed via RP, they found that one seminal vesicle was involved, it was removed, they spared my sex nerves, the Pca escaped the capsule, and there was no involvement in any lymph nodes, having one positive margin. So with all scans negative, my post surgery PSA, was 7.4 as my initial PSA was 20.2

    Because of the high Post Surgery PSA, I was not a candidate for Radiation, It was considered that I failed surgery, and with clear scans the Oncologist, and Urologist determined I had micro-metastasis---cancer cells circulating in the blood that had not landed anywhere. I was also not a Candidate for Chemo, and If I was I would not accept.

    So we we went on the attack of the cells in my blood with ADT-4, I added DIM later to knock out Estradiol. During the time of Surgery and my first failing PSA[60 days], I used this time to put together my supplemental program, using my training, knowledge, and hundreds of hours of research.

    So when I started my ADT-4, I also started my Kitchen Sink Supplemental Program.

    In 60 days we hit undetectable as to PSA, <than 0.03 PSA, for 14 months. As I mentioned I use the Vantas implant---so you do not have menopause side effects--the only thing is the loss of my T, which was supplemented to 700 Ng/Dl. But I hit the gym 4 days after surgery, at 20%, 100% by week 6, and my 195 lbs before surgery is now 195 lbs. And nobody including me knows what substances led to the undetectable PSA--especially when my Pathology was so agressive, and rare---with SR, of 18 months.

    The Vantas Implant does not upset the body and prevents inflammation. You see when you get a shot of Lupron, you are given an overload which lasts 3 , or 6 months, Then when you need another, your Lupron content is at a low point, where your Pca might wake up.---where the Vantas implant puts out the same amount every day and does not upset the body. And it is good for 15 months according to my new Oncologist at the prestigious Levine Cancer Institute. We are going to swap out Implants in a couple of weeks. Takes 5 minutes no pain.

    I also have a Geneticist at Foundation One who is trying to find a way to measure the cancer in my blood even though dormant. She just emailed me as she is traveling back to home base by plane.

    I have not used them yet, but the Levine Institute has a complete Nutritional/Supplemental Group, led by PHD's. Would be interesting to meet with them and exchange info. Most Cancer Centers have Diet and Nutritional Consultation. But not research. So I am loaded up to keep my disease in control--I just miss my T, and having some good sex.


  • Nal,

    you may be in much better shape than you think. I have read a number of studies that the circulating cancer cells are eventually killed if they don't land and form a tumor..You and your Gator will both make it to 100.


  • That is my plan to not let them land, not let them combine, and not let them stick to anything. But circulating dormant cells have a long hibernation capability, and can live for many years while hibernating. If they wake up one by one, my plan is an ambush, by supplementation, + ADT-5.


  • Nal,

    check this out - probably BS


  • I am full up, if adding more stuff, I will lose control of what is working or not.


  • Nal,

    I am talking about SARMS to build Caderine


  • Need to Study.


  • Nal,

    Ok...I will await your study...I am always interested in ways to build muscle


  • I have to jump in now.

    You guys are great,your Urologists or Oncologists must be pleased,

    (or annoyed if they do not like competition).

    I will check into this implant availability in Canada or Europe.

    I too miss my T but my Oncologist

    in Canada agrees to intermittent ADT until about PSA 15,

    I am allowed to eat reasonable quality of good beef,I swim ,walk,exercise and the T will get to about 10.

    At that time I get Lupron or equivalent and Bicalutamide.

    I live part of the year in subtropics, my partner is a nurse

    of Latin origin.

    We love each other and that leads often to great sex,

    Subject was discussed above--

    although I am not able to penetrate.


    mentioned way above ,

    often helps.

    Cheers to it!


  • If you are talking about the Vantas implant--been around for about 12 years.


  • What product do you buy and what is the distributor? Do you know this distributor's quality control?

  • I buy it from They have a Manufacturing agreement with Life Extension. You can call from the number on the Web site and ask for Technical assistance, you will be switched to QC, and you can talk to a real person. They also sell other Very well known Manufacturing Companies. Many Choices. As I have said before I am not recommending its use, even though it is part of my program. I am just reporting, about it.


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