I'm Curious What Relationship Does Testosterone have on your PSA.

[motosue]

Can you guys post your Testosterone number and PSA number. I'm wondering if there is a relationship to those numbers. Specifically, does low testosterone equals low PSA.

Thanks.

[RonL]

My PSA was 9.4 and my testosterone was <0.1 on my last test. Low testosterone and low PSA usually go hand in hand until the cancer becomes castrate resistant which it eventually does in most patients.

[motosue in reply to RonL]

Thanks Ron.

[Dan59]

T less than 20 and psa was 91 initiated chemo after jump from 68 to 91 in 2 weeks, I have been up and down for years on hormone manipulations, Now I am going to try to knock it back, with 6 cycles of Docetaxol/Taxotere every 21 days, Then I will try things that worked in the past, and I may be ready for a clinical trial if I can find the right one, Perhaps I will push for keytruda with my local on just the excellent paper by TM Beer showing its significant effectiveness as a PD1 inhibitor after another pd1 inhibitor that worked in other cancers came up short in Pca. PD1 inhibitors seem to be the rage in CA now.

[motosue in reply to Dan59]

Thanks for your reply, Dan.

[Break60]

Obviously when on ADT if you're not yet castrate resistant both PSA and T should decline. Thats the whole purpose of ADT! T should go below 20 for ADT to be effective and for you to be considered at "castrate" level. When my PSA declined to undetectable my T was only 7! My last PSA reading after going off ADT was .5 and T was 59. Crap!

Bob

[motosue in reply to Break60]

So I should always check my T, when doing my blood work so that if it starts to move up, then I should talk to my doctor immediately to get ready for the next step of treatment. Thanks Break60.

[bldn10]

Motosue, I think you should clarify what you are trying to discern because the relationship between PSA and T varies depending on of factors. E.g. I believe that there is hardly any relationship at non castrate levels of T; only when T has been reduced to castrate level does it have an effect on PCa/PSA.

[motosue in reply to bldn10]

Right. I didn't clarify myself when writing the question. I was just looking for those who are castrate yet. Does that sound right, bidn10? I'm understanding the vocabulary better now thanks to you all here.

[Fude]

Anybody totally obsessed with this too and have time left to live a life?

[Hidden]

For what it's worth: PSA 1.4, T is 0.

[Hidden]

If your prostate is still there -- after radiation or HIFU -- what is a good PSA reading after getting off ADT? I'm guessing that the PSA reading will go above say 0.3 after T level recovers? I guess I am going to have to research this.

[Break60 in reply to Hidden]

See this link :Www.psa-rising.com/med/ebr/nadir_survivalpostrad06.htm for a good explanation.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Here's some research on HIFU statistics: europeanurology.com/article...

My PSA is still masked by the six month eligard shot I took late August. I had HIFU in October. Will get another PSA / T test done in May. That result will be big. Wish me luck.

[Break60]

My latest test result was PSA 1.1, T 189. So in one month Psa doubled and T tripled.

[Hidden in reply to Break60]

Not a doctor, but I'm thinking that once T has fully recovered then the PSA trend will be more meaningful. If the PSA settles down and shows no signs of doubling after T has settled out then your situation might not be that dire.

[motosue]

Break60,

Sorry to hear about your PSA doubling. Thanks for the info about your PSA and T. I am thinking that if my T start moving up, one or more of my meds might be failing and so possibly my PSA number might start moving up right behind, so be ready with my next plan. Hopefully I do have a "next plan" with my doctor.

Thanks Break60.

[bldn10]

Motosue, I gather what you are asking about is:

men who have been on long term ADT,

reached castrate level of T [and DHT]

and undetectable PSA

whose T has started to creep up -

what did their PSA do?

Right?

I haven't been there so I can't answer from personal experience but some of the replies here seem to be on your point. I wasn't even aware that ADT would lose its effectiveness at lowering T at some point. I assumed that it would lose its effectiveness against the PCa [hormone refractory PCa] long before that.

[motosue]

My original question was what the correlation of T being less than 20 will almost always give one a undetectable PSA ? From the responses here, the answer would "no", I think.

And just for clarification, I was only asking those whose T was not castrate resistant yet. Someone brought that to my attention.

To answer your question, yes, I wanted to find out that too. More specifically, if the T started to go up, how fast did the PSA start going up. Did it go up together or is there a lag time.

[bb66hotflash]

My PSA was down to 0.07 with T at 16-20 range, but I was on Xtandi at the time. When I came off PSA went to 12, but T was at 16.

[motosue]

Thanks . Great information. I will ask my oncologist about 5-alpha reductase drugs and DIM. Learned new things . Great write-up. Normally I get lost reading about our drugs but yours, I could understand.

I wanted to inquire how long you are from diagnosis and have your medications kept your numbers in check? I sure hope so. Good luck and great health .

[Hidden]

I would say in one sense yes. But not in the sense that you mean. You mean not the rate of "expression" of PSA, but the measurement of PSA in the blood. Normally, very little PSA gets into the blood. It is supposed to go into the ejaculate.

Testosterone is a hormone, that is, a signaling molecure. It controls various male characteristics. In the prostate, it controls the creation of various proteins, one of which is PSA. Testosterone binds with the Testosterone Receptor (ie Androgen Receptor), It is a "transcription factor". You can read about that in wikipedia.

Here is a short video about the creation of proteins, and the role of the signaling molecules.

youtu.be/OEWOZS_JTgk(Not working as expected?)

Testosterone is a small molecule goes right through the cell wall, and does not need the extra complication of the surface receptor shown in the video.