NEW AND FIGHTING RARE DUCTAL PROSTATE CANCER

Had my biopsy in Dec. 2015. All cores were 100% Had surgical radical prostate removal, in early January. Pathology was Ductal Cribriform[only 0.4% of all prostate cancers], with a Gleason 4+5=9. 60 days post surgery my pre-surgery PSA of 20.2 was 7.40. This meant surgery failed, I was not a candidate for radiation, and at the age of 72 chemo was not a recommended course. As it was obvious my cancer had metastasized, but did not get to any nodes. My Radiation Oncologist wished me luck and my Urologist looked at me, as he saw a dead man walking. So we went to war! We did Androgen Deprivation, with a Lupron implant, Casodex, and Proscar. And I added my own supplemental program, as I am educated in Diet and Nutrition. Some items are currently in clinical trials, some once were, and others thought to be helpful. On top of this I instituted the Sodium Bicarbonate protocol for raising the PH of the blood[you can look up procedure on the internet]. The net result as of June 30th was my PSA went to 0.03, determined to be undetectable. Since we used a Kitchen Sink protocol, we do not know what supplements, drugs or bicarbonate, contributed to this reduction of PSA. Since we took PSA's every 30 days we graphed reductions of between 65-78% for each 30 day segment. So whatever was working, worked uniformly. The drop of PSA followed a straight line graph. I am scheduled for my next PSA on July 28th, hoping that my PSA remains undetectable at 0.03 or goes even lower to 0.00-0.0. Included in my program was deep breathing exercises and plenty of sunshine as Vitamin D3 is in Clinical phase 2 trial testing at MD Anderson today. Cancer cells hate oxygen and substances that attacks free radicals, such as Glutathione, and R-Alpha Lipoic Acid. Oxygen comes from the Bicarbonate, can come from food grade Hydrogen Peroxide, DMSO, Ozone, and bariatric oxygen chambers. And prostate cancer cells do not like their PH raised. When the body PH get near 8 the cancer cells tend to die. So that is a summary to date, and one last thing lots of Prayer and asking God for Wisdom and Guidance plays a major role.

32 Replies

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  • Anxiously await comments and followup.

  • Next follow up will be after my next PSA which is the 28th of July---That will be key as to if my program is still working, as my PSA as of June 30th had reached a low of 0.03--which the Urologist determined that he considered 0.03 as undetectable. If any questions about alternative treatment protocols, let me know.

    Regards

    Nalakrats

  • Do you eat vegan only? What is your daily intake of tomatoes and pomegranate. Do you eat fish?

  • bdriggers--I do not eat vegan for many reasons. First you cannot get all the essential amino acids from eating vegan. Also as we age the non-essential amino acids--the ones our bodies are to make slow down, their production. The amino acid Taurine, if I remember, can only come from meats. It is very key for heart health. And electrical current in the heart travels thru the Taurine Pathways--as the heart has the most Taurine of any organ.

    Anyway I will give you the shortest version of an old lecture I use to give in the early 1970's: Aging is simple. It is the body not replacing as fast, the billions of body cells that die each day. AS we age we replace them slower and slower until something fails. To optimize replacement one must know the simple way new body cells are replaced. Protein is broken down with stomach acid to amino acids. The amino acids are the building blocks to make new body cells of every type. Vitamins, Enzymes, and Minerals act as catalysts, allowing the production of new body cells from the amino acids just received from the breakdown of protein in the stomach.

    So to answer your question I eat as much protein as possible and supplement with the catalysts, mentioned above. I use also protein muscle building protein---the type used by body builders. I have to stay strong. I have no testosterone from the Hormone part of my treatment program, which makes it hard to maintain body muscle mass. But I do. My pre-surgery weight in December 2015 was 198. My weight today was 198. In December I could bench press 400 pounds at age 72. Today I can bench press 400 pounds also. The difference is in December I could only do one rep. today I can do 6 reps. I have not built more muscle, I have just maintained a strong high protein diet and an every other day workout schedule in the gym. You read about my alternative programs to fight my prostate cancer. In the fight I include staying strong.

    Regards, Nalakrats

  • Thank you Sir.

    Very good information

  • Your Welcome,

    Nalakrats

  • I am also a bodybuilder and I do not believe you. There is no way you can bench press 400 lbs for 6 reps at 72. Very few bodybuilders at any age could do 400 for 6 reps and you are claiming you can at 72 while on lupron, casodex, and proscar. I got $10,000 says you are a liar...you choose the gym and we will film regulation BP of 400 lbs for 6 reps...I hate you GD liars.

  • You are obviously a sick and jealous man. I feel sorry for you. You do need prayer. I have at least 6 witnesses to my ability to lift what I do. I have been in the gym for 45 years. So just prior to surgery I had a week of heavy lifting. Testosterone at that time was 710[Nature Identical Supplementation]. 4 days out of the hospital I was in the gym, and without disturbing my staples, against Doctor's orders, I started back on a mild weight program. Within 6 weeks before ADT I was back to my normal program. I usually lift in the 280-310 lb. range. I do the 400 lb. thing once or twice a year to see where my maximum strength is. After 8 weeks out from surgery I started ADT and never stopped lifting. Today I did 250 16 reps, 280 16 reps and 300 16 reps.

    If you really want a verification of my age and what I can lift, I can supply you with telephone numbers of the gym and of work out buddies. Nobody there knows I have prostate cancer---all they know is I went fishing for a week in January[Surgery Time]. Sorry about your envy and Jealousy--I have added you to our Prayer List--"That God Cures your Cancer".

    Nalakrats

  • Can you also walk on water...4 days after an RP an this liar is lifting weights at the gym..you can not even keep your story straight...first it was a BP of 400 for 6 reps..now it changed to a maximum lift which is one rep..now you say today you did 300 for 16 reps...Arnold benched 440 at the 1968 German Power Lifting Championship when he was in his 20's....Lou Ferrigno could BP 400 when he was 50 and today at 68 does 200 for reps...and these guys were on roids...then we have you...72 and on triple ADT Bench Pressing 400 for 6 reps..I am calling you a liar....meet me at Golds Gym In Columbus, Ohio...I will give you $25,000 if you can do a regulation BP of 400 for 6 reps and you give me $25,000 if you can not...no bs phone calls...put up or shut up you lying pos

  • We are finished--you are not worth the time or energy to respond to---follow my posts in the future---so you can learn something--I will not call you an a--h--- As my faith does not allow such--unfortunately you have no problem with dumpster diving.

    Have a nice life

    Nalakrats

  • DMSO doesn't usually appear in these articles and some places still sell it in the Garden Shop- I thought it was used mainly to control pain from conditions like tennis elbow- do you mean that it has oxygen available even as an ointment?

  • You can take DMSO internally. You must buy Food Grade. Now I am not using it. But I am prepared to use it if my PSA rises. The procedure calls for using one teaspoon in a juice like tomato juice to hide the taste. DMSO-or dimethyl sulfoxide, the O is the oxygen in the molecule. The oxygen gets released into the stomach and then into the blood. The DMSO then becomes MSM a popular joint pain reliever, after the oxygen gets released. That is probably how DMSO works when applied topically for muscle and joint pain.

    The overall key in using Bicarbonate, Peroxide, or DMSO is to get oxygen into the blood---as cancer cells hate oxygen. A cheap way is very extensive deep breathing exercises daily to saturate your blood with oxygen. I live 3,000 feet up with clean air so I do the exercises, with the Bicarbonate protocol--which you can find on the internet---under Sodium Bicarbonate and Prostate Cancer.

    Nalakrats

  • Nalacrats- there's an MD in my area- near West Palm Beach, Fl.- who also takes a simple approach to describing aging- our DNA has telomeres- small tails- as cells divide the telomeres get shorter until they reach the point where cells can't divide and we die- maybe that's oversimplified but he's making a lot of money (insurance doesn't cover any of his treatments) getting old people (and there's no shortage of them in this area) to sign up for supplements to increase the length of the telomeres. Sounds like you're doing something similar without all the hype.

  • Very good news. Good luck.

  • Yes the fast move down in PSA after failing surgery, where I could not get to radiation or chemo, around our parts is considered both a miracle, and an intervention by God. Thanks for the good luck post.

    Nalakrats

  • @Nalakrats -- First, I want to congratulate you on reaching a non-detectable level on PSA -- fantastic. I am, however, puzzled why your rad. onc. told you that you were not a candidate for radiation when you state that you had no nodal involvement. When your post-prostatectomy was at 7.4, didn't they suggest a scan to see where the cancer was before ruling out radiation? I also believe that it is entirely plausible that your triple androgen blockade alone could account for your PSA becoming undetectable, and you do seem to realize that all the supplements and bicarbonate that you are taking may not be necessary. Dr. Snuffy Myers scoffs at the use of bicarbonate to raise the pH of the blood because there are multiple delicately balanced buffering systems in the blood to keep your blood pH at a fairly constant level of around 7.4, and for good reason. If your pH were to go a bit too much above or below that level, the body goes into respiratory acidosis or respiratory alkalosis, both of which are very serious, life-threatening conditions if not corrected promptly.

    Len

  • StarlighterLen: Thanks for the reply. The reason not to radiate had to do with the fact I had positive margins, perineural invasion, and had seminal vesicle invasion, with one of the most aggressive forms of prostate cancer--one the relies on angiogenesis[builds its own highways], and makes its own food factories to supply its metastasis. So the Oncologist reasoned that even though the lymph nodes were clear that my sucker was definitely out of the prostate bed and moving. Also I was told the protocol to radiate, after surgery is not done when the PSA is over 2.5. Pre-Surgery I was over 20.

    One of the PH rendering programs approved by many Urologists is the treatment with Cesium Chloride---which increases PH and does have a good record of killing prostate cancer cells that have escaped. This can be done at home, but it is recommended that a Doctor supervise for the reasons you mentioned about respiratory acidosis. Look it up!

    Actually I recognize the supplements are necessary! I am advanced degreed in Diet and Nutrition, Food Science and Organic Synthesis Chemistry with 7 publications. The only thing I might agree to is that not all of my supplements may play a role; but there are those that are, and we do not know which ones. For D3 is in Phase 2 Clinical trial tests right now at MD Anderson, Glutathione is also in Phase 2 Testing, and Pectasol-C, is in both phase 2 and phase 3 testing in both Israel and the USA, under the auspices, of the NIH.

    On top of the above response I had a face to face with a Prostate Cancer Researcher, who worked for Bayer, and he got prostate cancer himself. Without getting long---he went the same ADT route for 4 years and is doing about 80% of what I am doing. He retired when he got cancer 12 years ago. He stopped all drugs 8 years ago, and is totally stable on his natural program--he gave me some, and I gave him some supplements to add. For 8 Years he has had a PSA of 0.3--it never varies. And my Urologist has had a few cases like me, and none had the results that I have had in such a short period of time---he told me none ever got to undetectable. And all passed. He personally asked me to right a paper to document what I am doing--because what has happened so far is not anything he has seen in 30 years.

    Truth be known I give all the credit and glory to God. So as they sometimes say--taking some of the things I am doing ---couldn't hurt--and the cost is under a 100 dollars a month. So I stay the course and will report back. Next PSA is later this week. Who know it could have turned back up==but my guess: it is the same or lower, in the undetectable range.

    Nalakrats

  • Hi Len & Nalakrats,

    I am copying below my signature, something I posted on Tackle Prostate Cancer yesterday. It was a response to someone who had posted a baking soda & molasses cancer protocol video.

    Concerning oxygen, I recall Dr Myers being angry that a number of his patients were being put on iron supplements by their regular doctors. Myers said that he learned in medical school, that if a man is low in iron, look for internal bleeding.

    But the men had not been test for iron deficiency. They were showing symptoms of anemia & the doctors had made the same assumption.

    There is a retationship between testosterone [T] and the red blood cell [RBC] count. While on ADT, the RBC falls to near anemia levels (or lower). Replace T & the RBC goes right back up.

    The RBCs contain hemaglobin, which carries oxygen from the lungs. With normal respiration, the RBCs are mostly oxygenated as blood leaves the lungs.

    So here we have a basic issue. PCa, of all cancers, is the most difficult to get oxygen to, while a man is on ADT.

    -Patrick

    I had the Heidelberg test [1] about 8 years ago. It provides information about stomach acid in a non-invasive way.

    A small device that measures pH & transmits that information is tied to a piece of cotton thread. The device is swallowed, but you hold on to the end of the thread. This prevents the device from leaving the stomach. (Ultimately, one swallows the thread & the device exits the body into the toilet bowl.)

    My pH was 2.0, which is normal.

    I was then given a bicarbonate of soda challenge. Just a glass of water with a quantity of sodium bicarbonate. The pH quickly rose to 7.

    The point of the test is to measure pH recovery time. Within a couple of minutes, the pH had returned to 2.0.

    The process was repeated, & my recovery time was even faster.

    The stomach doesn't was to be alkaline. The first obstacle to making a tumor alkaline, is that any oral treatment will be quickly neutralized.

    During digestion (which is very dependent on hydrochloric acid), the contents of the stomach (which is called chyme) exits through the pyloric valve into the duodenum. The pH is ~2.

    "The duodenum ... produces the hormone secretin to stimulate the pancreatic secretion of large amounts of sodium bicarbonate, which then raises pH of the chyme to 7." [2] Which, of course, is not acidic.

    The second obstacle to affecting tumor pH, is that

    "The normal blood pH is tightly regulated between 7.35 and 7.45." [3]

    It would be foolish & dangerous to try to increase that number.

    Some who set out to control pH regularly test their urine. For goodness sake, urine is a waste product. The pH can vary, but readings say nothing about blood pH.

    You can induce alkalosis by hyperventilating, which reduces carbon dioxide. Not recommended.

    -Patrick

    [1] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heide...

    [2] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chyme

    [3] medicinenet.com/script/main...

  • Thank you, Patrick. This corroborates what I was saying about blood pH in my earlier post to Nalakrats. Trying to raise blood pH is an exercise in futility at best, and not at all desirable.

  • I had started writing and by the 1000th word I lost my blog--it went poof--Anyway Len I will try a shorter version. I got so much blow back I needed to get into the chemistry. The reactive part of the sodium bicarbonate molecule is the C=O. A great tool for chemical reactions to form new compounds. The C is carbon and the O is oxygen--in the molecule. Bicarbonate by itself just raises the PH of the Stomach for a bit and the blood for a bit and then returns to normal as the body wants to be between 7.35-7.45. Google Molasses Chemical structure--you will see a bunch of compounds. So when you heat Sodium Bicarbonate with Molasses, we are creating new compounds. This is what we have: Lots of unreactive bicarbonate-neutralizing stomach acid and unreactive sweet molasses compounds. There are molasses compounds where the CL[Chloride] in certain ring structures and the N[Nitrogen] in the ring structures of molasses take on the carbonate part of Sodium Bicarbonate, releasing Hydrogen, and making salt[NaCl], upon heating. Ok: Now we have these compounds, lets call them one for now---circulating in the blood. It is basically a sugar with a carbonate segment attached chemically.

    Now lets look at a bit of Biochemistry of a prostate cancer cell. It likes for food DHT[Dihydroxytestosterone]--reason for ADT, and it likes sugar molecules. For the cells metabolize the food to create energy to keep on dividing, and growing trying to KILL you. The prostate cancer cells internal PH[Now it is time to talk about PH], is 6.5, or acidic. The cells like living in an acidic condition in a body that likes being in a basic condition[7.35-7.45] as mentioned above about our blood PH. The cells keep their acidity though the metabolic conversion of the food creating as its acid metabolite, lactic acid. This is how the prostate cancer cells stay happy in their acid PH poop. Now along comes our newly created sugar compound/compounds--with the carbonate attached. The prostate cancer sees and recognizes food, and takes in our new molecule/molecules. Upon consumption the carbonate gets released being a very basic[PH component], and reacts with the lactic acid of the cell, and increases the cells PH to a level it cannot survive in.

    So the Sodium Bicarbonate protocol only works for those men who have reported success, or written books in obtaining remission, with either Molasses or pure Maple Syrup, which would have similar compounds. It will not work with plain sugar, or glucose, as you cannot create the reactive molecules you get with molasses.

    So in conclusion, as I got so much blow back I found it necessary to really describe the PH avenue of attack of Prostate Cancer Cells, and it has nothing to do with raising the PH of the Blood. It has to do with the raising the PH of the Cancer Cell by making a [Trojan Horse].

    So beware for those that try this protocol, as mentioned by others there is acidosis, and high sodium levels that can affect BP and the heart. There is a mineral protocol for eliminating excess sodium, to keep BP normal, and a Protocol to keep acidosis under control.

    So in conclusion for those that read what I have written to Len----the theory proposed above, comes from an understanding of Organic Synthesis Chemistry and Biochemistry. As I said it is proposed, as I am not aware of anyone trying to prove by extensive research what I tabled above. But the chemistry is real--we do actually create these Trojan Horse compounds, when the bicarbonate is heated with the molasses in water. If they actually get into the prostate cell and kill it, I cannot prove without a doubt.

    For all I know my PSA will start rising and I will be on the next set of drugs/supplements heading for the great sunset.

    Regards

    Nalakrats

  • Then you all should look to cesium chloride as an approved way to increase PH under a Doctor's supervision.

    Nalakrats

  • Patrick, I assume you are not a Chemist. But, I am! I am quite aware of all that you posted and I agree. BUT, I ask you: do you know what happens when Molasses and Sodium Bicarbonate, are mixed together in water and then heated to dissolve both materials in a glass of water? Do we have just 2 substances after heating--the bicarbonate and the molasses? Or have we created some new compounds that really have nothing to do with blood PH, but by their nature can affect the "PH" of the cancer cell, and not the Blood.

    If you have the answers then get back to me. If not I might be able to explain, but you will need to understand Graduate Chemistry, and Graduate Cellular Biochemistry. Or I may be able to come up with the narrative of the Chemistry. Not trying to be a smart ass--but the complexity of what happens when 2 simple every day substances get a chance to react, to create new substances that may play a role in a disease outcome is fascinating.

    Nalakrats

  • A psa of .03 after starting triple ADT is no big deal and is par for the course. There is no way your LN are clear with SV invasion and perineural invasion. In 6-18 months you will have CRPC ...maybe 6 months on zytiga and xtandi...then look out below...

  • One more thing or 2 Since I have Ductal Cribriform. No one we have found understands the pathology and where it goes when intervened--all drug companies--the ones that make Zytiga, Xtandi, Lupron, and others---when asked by my oncologists they threw up there hands, indicating--they do not know how to best treat. The Prostate Cancer Institute of America, could find just one more man in California, who has exactly what I have and we are following him. Studies indicate about 0.4% of all prostate cancers are what I have---or about 130 men a year get it---so after communication with the heads of Urology and Oncology at UCLA medical and at Emory in Atlanta--- they could not add anything to assist. So I am glad you know what I am expected to face. I will pass it on to my lead Urologist. By the way one thing you left out---God and Prayer---He works.

    Nalakrats

  • Dear Nalakrats;

    Well there are at least two of us that have ductal cancer. I had my surgery last April. (I had to argue with the surgeon to do the operation even though it had spread to a pelvic lymph node.) I am going to Henry Ford Hospitals who are known worldwide for Da Vinchi prostate surgery. They do hundreds of surgeries every year. My case was the second they have seen in five years or over 3000 cases. The doctors have had two group meetings to figure out how to treat it. They still do not know how to treat it.

    Here is one article that discusses ductal cancer.

    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

  • Dr_Who, It is a B-t-h. As I said to someone else on this site---my Urologist--called all the drug companies that provide the Advanced Drugs-- they all threw up their hands and had no pathway to provide--also we got UCLA Medical and Emory, in Atlanta---same thing--they do not know. We were told to treat as a normal less aggressive cancer. That is why I threw the kitchen sink at the cancer along with the typical ADT drugs.

    One thing I know is that Pectasol-C powder, which is in Phase 2 Trial Testing in Israel, and Phase 3 in the USA, may have a benefit. The main thing this material does, is stop angiogenesis--this is the main method for Ductal Cancer spreading. The Pectasol appears to stop angiogenesis by chemically blocking the Galectin-3 molecule. The results have been very favorable, with a lot of cancer cell death reported in the previous tests. And the nice thing is you can find it on Amazon. I have been on it 3 months, with other things along with my drugs. Tomorrow is the next PSA blood draw--I should know by Thursday how well I am doing. Was 0.03 end of June--pray it is the same or lower.

    Nalakrats

  • I also take Pectasol-C powder. Never have been able to get it to totally dissolve. Do you have that issue?

  • Dr_WHO---I only tried to dissolve the first application, 3 months ago---as a chemist I knew that dissolving this was not going to be easy. So I did not want to mess with the chemistry of the modified citrus pectin---and I take my 3/per day 5 gram doses by throwing my head back, empty the applicator and swallowing about 8 ounces of water to wash it down the gullet. Many times especially the morning and afternoon dose I have a cup of hot coffee after swallowing--I do not do it on purpose--it just is the time of my coffee.

    What were your PSA values before surgery, after surgery[60-90 days out], and today? Did you have a second variety of cancer as I did to go along with the ductal? Was your cancer pathology called undifferentiated? What was your Gleason?

    I am trying to see where we line up with each other, as we are both fairly new with Ductal and we might be able to benefit each other as we come across things. Obviously we both found the Pectasol. Let me know about my questions

    Regards,

    Nalakrats

  • Here is the information I have. The write up just said ductal.

    1/2016 I was 58 when diagnosed,

    3/2016 bone scan negative CT scan positive (one lymph node)

    4/2016 DaVinci surgery Gleason 8 (4+4) T3aN1Mx ductal Stage 4 D1 (localized) (They just wrote it up as ductal.) 1/15 lymph nodes was "100%" cancer.

    5/2016, bone and CT scan negative

    PSA

    12/2014 = 3.4

    12/2015 = 4.7

    1/2016 = 11.3

    2/2016 = 9.7

    5/12/2016. = 0.1

    5/23/2016. < 0.1 (lowest value)

    7/5/2017 <0.1

    6/2/2016. Needle biopsy of swollen pelvic lymph node negative

    Hormonal 6/2/2016 Lupron (4 month shot)

    External radiation to start 8/2016

    Bladder leakage

    6/28/2016 > 250 g/day

    7/6/2016 < 10g/day

    Hope this helps.

  • Dr_WHO, also you might want to consider vitamin K1-K2 complex. I get mine from Vitacost.com. If you are on ADT the K2, is a major transporter of calcium to the bone. And K1, has its own unique cancer fighting mechanism. It causes ocosis, when in the vicinity of a prostate cancer cell. The cancer cell splits open and spills out its nucleus, thus dying. I got this from a Biochemist who has Prostate Cancer, and as a researcher--he worked for Bayer in Prostate Cancer research. He has an aggressive cancer--is 12 years out and drug free for 8 years. He is taking some of the same things I am--and now will add Pectasol, after researching the clinical trial results to-date. He is a big fan of the Vitamin K thing. Of course if you are on blood thinners you cannot use. He is also a fan of Loxin-5, and pomegranate extract. He is using as anti-oxidants. I use Glutathione, and R-alpha lipoic acid, as my antioxidants. Anyway wanted to add this to the mix. And remember Vitamin D3 is in a serious Phase 2 trial at MD Anderson. Do not know how it works but I am taking heavy doses, as part of my kitchen sink approach. Must be D3 and not D2.

    Nalakrats

  • Dr-Who--I read the article after the last post--the article was 10 years old. I found a study in S.Korea from 2007--with Ductal. Could not understand what they were really trying to accomplish--but the 157 men that they studied did not live long. Very inconclusive, to anything.

    I had a very high PSA at the time of surgery[20], with no distant metastasis found--which makes me a case with a short mortality based on the report you provided. So from what I read my now PSA of 0.03 may not really define all the cancer I have. And the fact Ductal can go to soft organs, bone scans may not be as important as CT scans. Because typical cancer likes to go to bones preferentially.

    Anyway, I am not out far enough to have more personal info. But I will stay my course of retaliation against the cancer.

    Nalakrats

  • Sorry--one who knows everything---Pet Sodium Fluoride Scans were clear before surgery, And just in case I had the most likely nodes removed anyway--and they were clear. Have a nice day.

    Nalakrats

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