My 12 year old daughter had an epic meltdown today. She threw food, hit and called my husband and I names that I can't post here. We knew we needed to get away from her, as just being near her was causing her to do more outrageous things. We hid in our room until we heard water running. She pulled the sink snake thing over the floor and was just running water on the floor. My husband picked her up and put her outside. We live in a warm climate and nice neighborhood, she was safe and warm. So, She started screaming that she was going to die...etc etc. She tore off screens and caused a lot of damage. A neighbor called the police, who would blame em?. We said ' calm down and we will let you back in'. Just as she was settling down the police showed up. I gotta say, the guy was great. Our daughter was not abused and he saw the destruction first hand. He talked to her about being respectful to her parents and how he knows kids her age who are in juvenile jail. I hope this visit made a lasting impression. Im so torn by how much of this is ADHD related and how much is just rebellious behavior. Ugh ugh.
Police came to our house tonight. Wor... - CHADD's ADHD Pare...
Police came to our house tonight. Worse melt down to date.
Oh my!! Wow - what a day. I’m so sorry to hear you had such a horrible episode!
*HUG* and prayer for you all. Hang in there. It sounds like you did the best you can in an impossible situation.
Im so sorry I I feel like I can relate to how I think you must feel. My son also exhibits he's kind of terrorizing behaviors. Just last night my son scratched my arm 2 and 1/2 in deep enough to bleed while I was sleeping. I believe that it is much more than just ADHD. Out of curiosity was your daughter a "colicky baby"? My Son had an undiagnosed yeast infection in his esophagus for the first year and a half of his life. I'm almost 100% sure that most of the doctors thought I had Munchausen by proxy. Finally a gastro specialist did exploratory endoscope to find it but once he was cured I feel like the damage was already done. My son also screams "I don't want to die!" in the middle of his meltdowns. He takes clonidine to help him sleep and when he's having one of his massive meltdowns I usually give him half a tablet as it helps to calm him down. It feels as if my life is consumed with trying to help my son and protecting myself and daughter from him. I can feel very lonely. I wish you were family lots of luck and I hope in some way I have been able to help you even if it's to let you know you're not alone.
Holy cow can I relate. My husband and I were hashing through a strategy this morning, and I said 'its not just us' and shared your story. My arms looked like bruised bananas back in February, from defending myself. She is currently doing chore penace. We had her rewrite 'the rules' and had a long talk. We are also setting a plan in place for next time. I read some really helpful stuff about rage episodes and how to handle. She is on Seroquel for similar issues in February.. but more violent. May be time to increase dose. Jumping and around a bit, I will say I hate using antipsychotics, but alternative is inpatient where she will get 5x the dose. Hugs to you.
I have a dear friend whose child is taking clozaril. It was sort of a last resort medication because of the possible side effects to the immune system but everyone I speak to about it has responded with stories of how it has changed their lives. My husband is going to be starting it in January. Knowledge is power so I want to share.
I just want to give you huge HUGS. Has your daughter been diagnosed with anything else besides ADHD? Just trying to think of other possibilities. My daughter has been through some pretty traumatic things in her life. We started EMDR about six weeks ago. I know a lot of people don't believe in it, but it has helped her.
Sometimes there is no good answer and we just have to do the best we can. I know that in my town you can get a tour of the juvenile detention center, but I never know if my daughter would then just use it against me in another battle....UGH .
Thanks. No official dx, but I suspect bipolar. I think it's time to up the Seroquel. Good idea on JV tour. I already took her on a tour of the local jail after a violent episode in February
YOU are not alone. This happened to us too. My daughter was about 16 and screaming bloody murder in the garage to leave her alone and swearing like you've never heard before. She zoomed off in the car. Everything echos from our house and all the neighbors heard - without a doubt. A few weeks later, when my daughter left bleach spilled all over bathroom counter and I got on my face - I started yelling! The police show up this time! Then they started to say that I must be a child abuser and my daughter wanted to help convince them that that was the case! I tried so hard to convince police that it was a whole cluster*&()) of things and then had to resort to naming all the things she's done! I hated to do this, but my daughter was trying to frame me! INCREDIBLY TERRIBLE and it gets worse....the policeman starts commenting on how nice our house is and WOW, a family to act like this when they have such a nice house! From now on, I HATE THE POLICE. I still can't believe it. The only thing that helped in this situation is by saying my father is a lawyer and I can call him right now to back-up my story. WOW, shortly thereafter the police left. The only thing the policeman did, shortly thereafter is to tell my daughter the she is not a child and pretty soon her actions will appear on police records.
Whoa Courtney85 just Whoa. Good for you for standing up for yourself. And just whoa to that cop. Somehow from years ago and probably because I am a lawyer (oh, right I told her this) my daughter believes I control and can call the cops anytime to take her away. Probably not that trust building, but the way things are going now, I'm super happy that I did that.
Good for you and good for you with a nice career. It’s embarrassing to put on paper that story but it’s also a relief to get it off my chest! I’m grateful to you and this group and there couldn’t be any better therapy out there.
Oh I can't really just call the police trust me. she just thinks that.
Oh I know! It’s just something that shows you are a reasonable and educated person.
Thank you for sharing. I know what you mean, I feel embarrassed as well, even though In have no reason to be. Id never ever share this with someone I know here
Also, Crunchy, I wish I knew if it were ADHD behavior or something much more serious. Only thing I can think of it that my daughter might have been taking the medicine in higher doses than prescribed ( doubling it?) and it caused this. Or, she was smoking pot the night before, then woke up and took huge amount of Vyvanse
Interesting. I do think coming down from meth can cause anger.
Crunchby-
Thanks for sharing, this is one of those experiences you guys will look back at and remember as a really bad time. I really think it is a good idea to plan for the "next time" and make guideline that she follows. For example if she starts to be destructive (or harms you guys) you will XXX and her consequence will be XXX.
You didn't say if she was on medication and seeing a therapist. Any child can get mad but this is much more. It would be great if you can get a therapist opinion on how to draw the line. We have had light switches brown and a hole in the wall (small because he kicked it) but since we have increased medication we have not had anything like this.
I also wonder about restraining? For me telling him to go to his room does not work because he won't do it.
Good luck with your plan. We are here for you anytime. More hugs !!
Thank you for taking the time to respond. Yes, she is on meds, Vvyanse and Seroquel. The Seroquel stopped the crazy rage fits almost immediately, back in n Feb. I think it may be time to up dose a bit. Today was a good day. Pretty sure id run out room listing all the chores she had to do. Some of what fueled this was a new strategy I'm trying, bc nothing else seems to work. She was being so disrespectful and ODD, that I said "enough". I went old school and took everything away. I mean, she is allowed to read and eat . That's it. If she can't follow the rules she is not getting the privileges. All was written down and discussed at length until I was sure she understood. If she can abide by the rules and expectations she can enjoy the privledges. I am really taking a page from my Army experience at basic training. All is taken away, a person is reduced to the bare essentials then things are given back as they prove they are worthy. I gotta tell you, I feel like I have my house back and am calling the shots, not the other way around. I know its like breaking a horse in, but this feels right, and she has been very responsive. I think all our token economics, and endless point systems were getting gamed and she was not making lasting behavior changes. Yes, she is in therapy, I think its super valuable, but sometimes you gotta go with your gut instincts. IMO.
Your spot on about prepping for next time. Also, realizing that we need to keep a cool head...its really hard though! Oh, yeah. . The 'go to your room and self soothe'. . just makes her more angry. We are leaving next time, if it starts escalating and doesn't seem to be coming down. There's a great chart on the net, that shows the phases of a rage event. The take away for me is 'don't try to reason or discipline while at the peak.' Just get through, protect oneself and property and deal with consequences well after. We did everything wrong.. We tried to talk to her, discipline and even lost our own shit a bit... Its hard not to, but we gotta keep it cool and be calm next time.
Anyway, thanks for writing and 'listening'. lm glad your son responded well to meds. Hugs
My son doesn’t yet have violent rage outbursts, but he definitely cannot he talked to during a meltdown. He also never does well with “go to your room!”, so he gets to pick where he has to sit to calm down, and he always wants to be insight of me (granted he’s barely 7 right now, so not quite an equivalent comparison.)
I have also found that reward systems have a short shelf life. I like to use them in the beginning (of summer, school year, winter break, anytime there’s a behavior we feels need particular attention), but when the excitement wears off we let it fade out & hope the things we wanted it to accomplish have become habit. Otherwise, more natural / logical rewards & consequences seem to be more effective in maintaining.
Sounds you’re on the right track! I know it’s hard but the best thing you can do when they have an episode is demonstrate CALM & CONFIDENT demeanor. My son is 11 & we still have him sit in timeout. He sits there & swears at us, marks up the wall, but he does sit. If I engage him, he will kick & punch at me, so I avoid that until he’s calm. If he continues to protest, I calmly remind him that ‘I hear you honey. when you’re calm, we can talk about your feelings’. Then both my wife & I completely ignore the attention seeking behavior. Better, we occupy ourselves with things we know he’s interested in! Like laughing at a funny video. Eventually he calms down. Then I go in & ask ‘are you calm now?’ If he says no, I say ‘ok’ & go back to doing something interesting. 90% of time he says ‘yes I’m calm’. Then I don’t lecture, I give him love for being calm. Then I tell him to cleanup any mess he made from his tantrum. If he was particularly cruel, we assign him an act of kindness chore to make amends. He does this willingly because in the end, he wants our love & attention. Remember, this is attention seeking behavior! Rewarding it with negative attention will increase the frequency of negative behavior! Stay calm & positive & absolutely don’t react negatively or with anger. I know it’s hard. It took years to even understand this. We still blow it often.
Hi, nothing stays the same. This will get better. Read pslam 31 and pslam 5. Pray together as a family. Everyone say their own little prayer about the situation, and life at least one time a day (morning). Hold hands 💕Take care you guys got this
Is she on Vyvannse? Vyvannse turned my teenage son in to a monster. Come to find out, it has that effect on some people. He is on Adderall X-RAY and 1.5 mg of Risperdone now which is doing good. He still talks back at home but does not go in to uncontrollable rages
My Gosh!!! You must be so upset over this episode. What a horrible thing to have to experience. Please PLEASE take her to see a psychiatrist. This could be bi-polar or manic depression. It is not normal for a 12 year old to behave this way.
You did the right thing by removing yourselves and having your husband put her outside until she could calm down. Otherwise she would have caused more expensive destruction.
You might consider having her stay with a relative or some other place until she can learn to exhibit appropriate behavior and be respectful of both of her parents and of her home. She cannot continue to think she is in control of the home and of her parents.
Thank you for sharing with us and for seeking advice.
I've worked in a juvenile detention center for 34 years and counting. I used to do tours. It is a toss-up as to doing any good. Detention isn't really scary and scare tactics seldom work. Any scare tactic has about a 30-day effect at most.
PLEASE get family counseling to go along with the medication. It is cheaper than getting involved in the court system where you will be paying a lawyer to represent her (not you), having to take more time off from work to go to court, risking deeper involvement and probably being ordered into counseling anyway. Like medication, finding the right counselor can take time. BTW, my wife and I had a major problem with our fifth (and last) child born 10 years after the other four. We ended up in counseling and learned that all we control is our own reactions, not his, but it helped us and him in the long run.
Thanks, for your response. I actually took her on a jail tour. It scared the crap out of her. She went into a cell where someone had put claw marks on the wall trying to get out (or so they said). We do all the above you mentioned, I think we need to make a few adjustments and do a better job at stopping or getting through the crisis and not trying to affect any change during it. Easy said...
Our 8 year old started on extended release Vyvanse and had to stop because of awful meltdowns once the meds wore off - didn't matter what dose it was. Uncontrollable crying, kicking doors, throwing chairs down, he was impossible to comfort - and if we tried he just took it out on us so we just had to let him work through it. He's doing much better on ritalin now although he still had the occasional meltdown, just not as bad. Good luck, hopefully it was just a really bad day and maybe look at a med change if you haven't tried that.
Thank you for responding. Funny, we had same issue but on Ritalin. All the stims are similar in chemistry, we found it comes down to how the drug wears off. It's all very individualized though bc everyone metabolizes the drugs differently. I gotta say, I'm considering dropping the stims during the day, just to see. Maybe over Xmas break? Glad things have stabilized for your son. Hugs.
Over Xmas break may be a great time, just to see. Nice thing with the stims is you can just stop / restart day to day. 12 does seem to be an age where medication adjustments need to be made as puberty sets in. If it doesn’t help, I’d also have her looked at for any undiagnosed comorbid conditions & treatments for them.
I am so thankful that the damage was done to your home and not to your body. That said, I only wish there were words to help ease the damage this has done on your heart. My only input to add is that we had tried stimulants a couple times, each time a different one since roughly kindergarten. It was a terrible situation we were initially bullied into looking back. Anyhow, every time the same result. The come down period was a terror. She said and did things that she surely did not learn in our home environment. These last few tries we ended the drug immediately. For my daughter there simply is not a safe or healthy stimulant use.
So sorry! Our 10yo son has had terrible meltdowns and I have only shared with my daughters what happened recently. Son and I were alone when he got up at 3 o’clock on a weekend and started jumping on my bed. He wanted me to get up and give him his electronics to play with. When I wouldn’t he kicked holes in the wall and yelled I didn’t want him. I pushed him out of the bedroom and tried to lock it. He yanked it open and started coming at me. I accidentally scratched his cheek while trying to get him to take a dose of Risperdal. He picked at his nose until it bled and he screamed I was a demon and let blood drip all over the carpet. Anyway he told someone at school that I abused him and a policeman came banging on my door and I had to explain what happened. The second time he had a similar rage, my husband couldn’t control him and put him in a headlock so he wouldn’t get bit. CPS paid a visit that time. I feel like I should perhaps had contacted the police more when he was in such a rage. I also have thought about taking him to a behavioral facility for a few days but I’m scared of traumatizing him — he is our adopted son. He’s diagnosed with ADHD and mood disorders and the usual that goes with it ——impulsivity, emotional immaturity, aggression, etc. and we are having a very hard time at school with lack of work, etc. He’s on Vyvanse and Zoloft in a.m., and Abilify and Clonidine in p.m. We give Risperdone as needed for episodes. Wondering if anyone has tried inpatient treatment and if that was beneficial. He manages to get through school without too many problems but he doesn’t want to work and often doesn’t mind the teachers. They say we have to get him to behave well and we’ve tried everything we know how to do—counseling, neuropsychologist, etc.
Wow, what a nightmare. Sorry you are going through this. Id suggest risperidone daily, but ask your doctor. Honestly, I video episodes now, bc I'm afraid she will inadvertantly get hurt during her attacks on us. When she was in her hitting spree back in February pre- Seroquel, I didn't know what to do when she took swings at me other than put my arms up to shield my face. It was nothing short of terrorizing I mean if any other person in the world did this to me I would absolutely fight back with all my strength. I can't though, because Id hurt her. My arms were covered in bruises. I thought, and asked about inpatient too. I mean I was ready. Psychiatrist said to try the antipsychotics first. We did, and they really helped. So, maybe his drugs need to be changed? Risperidone is like Seroquel, but she gets it everyday. The psychiatrist put it like this: she will still get mad, just not as mad". But for Saturday, this has held true. Hugs to you
Hi Crunchby. I am sorry your family had to experience such a traumatic event. Have you thought about what may have caused your daughter's meltdown? Have you considered things that occurred during the day or over the last few days may have caused her meltdown? I'm glad you had an officer that was caring. Have you considered getting professional counseling for your daughter? Maybe a counselor would be able to help her manage her emotions and give her strategies so that she won't have meltdowns. Wishing you the best.
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