I am educating myself via all the posts (thank you to all the regular posters).
Is there a summary anywhere or a recommended book of how to ensure you are making the most of what you eat / don’t eat?
For example, I just read that I need to eat steak and chips (great news) to help support optimal ferritin levels. I understand that low levels require non-food supplementation but my vits are ok apart from D3 (and only in the winter) - so I assume my current diet must be reasonably ok.
What I have read so far is
- Ferritin needs vit c
- Vit D3 needs magnesium
- People with Hashi’s may benefit from excluding gluten and / or dairy
Thanks all.
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N5girl
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I would recommend you only make one dietary change at once, as otherwise you can get into a muddle working out which change is beneficial.
I recommend eliminating gluten totally for 3 months, to see if this benefits you. Some members choose to have a coeliac test prior to a trial. I’m not coeliac but, like many with Hashimotos, am very gluten intolerant, & wouldn’t have gluten again.
For example, I just read that I need to eat steak and chips (great news) to help support optimal ferritin levels.
Actually, that was a joke. And you've taken it out of context so it doesn't mean very much. What I was saying was that the person I was replying to needed to eat more iron-rich foods (e.g. steak - but liver would be better!) with a source of vit C (potatoes contain quite a lot of vit C). It was not meant to be taken literally as a recommendation for steak and chips! And I say that before anyone starts shouting at me about chips being fattening! (They aren't but whatever.)
And, it was to raise his possibly low ferritin, NOT maintain his ferritin levels because we don't know what they are due to very high CRP.
If you're going to quote me, please make sure you do it correctly. Thank you.
But seriously, I doubt if there is such a book because new things are always being discovered. It would go out of date pretty quickly.
Oh, and vit D also needs to be taken with vit K2-MK7.
Sorry Greygoose, my comment was tongue -in-cheek too - I wasn’t taking it as an actual diet recommendation, but I appreciate how that nuance can be missed. It was more a reference to the fact that it is not as simple as just eating iron-rich foods - they need to be accompanied by Vit C (which is what I put in the summary).
In reply to other comments, I am waiting to get the actual print out of the test results from a few months ago - all I have is the consultant comments without the ranges. All of these are without supplementation (which I started after the tests), but are post an elimination diet which made my diet a lot more protein heavy and dairy-free.
Ferritin - 81
Iron - 23
B12 - 324
Calcium - 2.5
Vit D - 48 H (mentioned as low and a mega dose taken over the last few weeks) - this is due to be retested this week to check it has worked.
I haven’t changed anything yet, but I am conscious that trying a gluten-free diet is a huge change and effectively like changing a number of things at once because of the amount of foods excluded.
I don’t plan to make any changes like a GF diet until I am up to my full dose of Levo. I would just like to come up with a plan that I can discuss with the consultant. I have already asked the consultant to increase my dose to 50 mcg because my fatigue has been far worse and unmanageable - I have been falling asleep in meetings.
The consultant didn’t mention folate in the summary but there were lots of test results omitted. I will ask for a test if it has not been tested already.
I started supplementing after being told about Vit D being too low. The supplement contained B vits as well so I suspect my score may have gone up further than the results above. I need to switch it over now because the supplement has Biotin in it. The consultant did not highlight B12 as an issue but I appreciate that what is ok for a lab range, may not be ok if you have thyroid issues. I am quite happy to take more B12 as I understand that you just pee out any excess.
B12 and folate should always be tested together because they work together.
I started supplementing after being told about Vit D being too low. The supplement contained B vits as well so I suspect my score may have gone up further than the results above.
I wouldn't count on it! Depends on what else is in that multi, depends on how much B12 is in it, depends on which type of B12 it is. Multi-vits are never, ever a good idea, for many reasons.
Why don't you want to take biotin?
A B 12 the level of yours wouldn't be good for anyone. It should be at least over 550. But, yes, B12 is water soluble, so any excess is excreted.
I thought that I should have access to a B vit without biotin for testing weeks. What do people do the week before testing? Do they just take B12 or do they take other B vitamins or do they just stop supplementing?
Perhaps this isn’t much of an issue because most people don’t have to test v often. I am having a blood test every few weeks at the moment - so I thought I should try to make the data as reliable as possible.
It's only a small amount of biotin in B complexes, so just stopping it for a couple of days should be enough, and won't make that much difference to your B12. Or, if that worries you, you could get a separate B12 and just take that without the B complex for those few days.
But, you do want a B complex with just B vits in it, not a multi-vit. And you want one that contains methylcobalamin and methylfolate, rather than cyanocobalamin and folic acid.
I love this topic and think it's incredibly important, so I hope you don't mind I have quite a bit to say! Haha.
I'm curious about your comment that you did an elimination diet, was that just dairy? And you mentioned eating more protein? I definitely agree with this, eating adequate protein has been extremely important for me (Brad Bodle talk about this too).
I'm also doing an elimination diet at the moment. It took me a long time to get to this point and I spent a lot of time reading and developing a plan first. Mine isn't super strict like some out there. It's a twofold aim, one, to identify any sensitivities, once foods are reintroduced, but the other thing is reducing irritation in the gut in order to heal it. There's a lot of info out there about gut health, leaky gut, dysbiosis, and especially the link to the immune system. Furthermore the gut is important in conversion and utilisation of thyroid hormone, as well as getting all the nutrients we need. (As you can see I have a lot to say).
I have been gluten free for close to two years now I think. I tested negative to celiac before I started, but I tried some gluten a few months after I started, and definitely had a flare, so I've been pretty strictly avoiding since then. In March I cut out dairy, alcohol, sugar, caffeine and inflammatory processed foods (additives and inflammatory fats like sunflower oil). This is temporary, as I said, while I work on healing my gut. Theory is that we react to more foods when our gut health is bad. I think I'll end up where I continue eating well, much as I am now, but eat these things occasionally. But the idea is to test my tolerance when I do reintroduction. I've already introduced coffee and doing well on it.
I'm now in week 8 and feeling great! I started all this the day after getting a blood draw, in which, apparently, all my thyroid hormones were optimal, but I still wasn't feeling it. So, I've definitely seen huuuuuge changes.
Something that I think is one of the biggest puzzle pieces has been stomach acid. A lot of people with hypo/hashi's have low stomach acid (you can test this with bicarb soda). I've been taking Betaine with Pepsin (Izabella Wentz talks about this). I ran out a couple of weeks ago, so had about a week without as I waited for more to arrive. I noticed my energy drop again, bloating returned, acne came back. Since I restarted it my acne and appearance of skin in general got better almost overnight, bloating has gone and my energy is the best it's been, possibly in years! It really is amazing and soooo important. Without adequate stomach acid there is a whole domino effect of consequences as our bodies aren't breaking down or absorbing our food properly. And it is something that helps the body to start making more acid again. I've already reduced my dose since I started taking it.
So, my top things would be, gluten free, support low stomach acid, eat enough (in general) but specifically protein, blood sugar balance, address gut health as appropriate for you (dysbiosis, leaky gut, probiotics?). In terms of food, loooots of veg and protein, fermented foods (sauerkraut, miso etc), bone broth, tumeric, ginger, berries, rocket and other greens, nuts and seeds, corriander, lemon, etc etc.
Ok, I think that's enough from me. I've tried to keep this (relatively) brief as I am someone who does a lot of research and I could go on and on! Also, I've been really excited about how much difference all this has made, so have a lot to say. If you want more detail about any of it I'm happy to chat.
The elimination diet was recommended by a dietitian to try to manage gastro issues (not the usual obvious thyroid ones). So we were not really considering anything other than gastro concerns.
It is interesting what you said about the need to plan. I had to restart the elimination diet a few times because of ‘slippage’ - so this time I want a better plan and I need to be realistic about timing to make sure I follow it strictly. I also need to pay attention to other symptoms more than I did the first time around. Thanks for the advice.
Ah, I see. It's interesting because the gut issues could be related to the thyroid too!
Good luck this time! Make sure you include yummy foods so you don't feel like you're missing out, (eg. I made some great sugar free chocolate cookies using banana instead), and plan to have enough food and snacks so you don't have to eat things you shouldn't in an emergency. I got lots of my info about gut healing from Izabella Wentz, Jolene Brighten and a book called Immune System Recovery Plan by Susan Blum.
Thanks for all the references - that is very helpful.
I am going to do a meal plan and only use ‘safe’ recipes. I am also going to wait for better weather as I don’t think it will be as hard if it salad weather.
I have realised that I just need to prep everything myself and forget about buying in meals from outside.
I also need to read a lot more about immune / thyroid elimination diets before hitting the supermarket. The one I went on differed considerably to some of the immune ones I have seen so far - for example I was allowed eggs, nightshade but not allowed vinegar, citrus etc.
I also need to read up on leaky gut. One ‘dr’ website said that leaky gut causes the issues, whereas others say that the thyroid causes the gastro problems. Really hard to tell who can be relied on, and who is talking nonsense.
I can feel the need for a whiteboard and a lot of Post It notes!
Yes, salad weather should help! I love a big salad with lots of extras like seeds and nuts and some good fish or chicken. Yum.
To be honest I looked at the immune/thyroid diets and didn't go all the way. I looked at some different resources and kind of combined things. I want to do 12 weeks total I think, so decided to do 6 weeks and reassess if I needed to do further eliminations, but I'm doing well, so not adding more. Because it's important to avoid things that are making you sick, but at the same time, having enough food, keeping blood sugar stable, and not being stressed about it are also huge factors. But that's why reading and planning and comparing with your own symptoms and experience are important in order to see what's right for you.
Regarding leaky gut, I think it's a bit chicken and egg. It goes both ways. Low thyroid causes low stomach acid, and enzymes, poor motility etc, and this exacerbates things by increasing inflammation and stopping you from absorbing all the nutrients you need for your thyroid and the rest of your body to function properly. But leaky gut allows the undigested particles of food and whatever nasty pathogens to pass into your body, irritating the immune system and causing all sorts of havoc, and again, inflammation. This is why you need to look at both. I've been taking Betaine and Pepsin for stomach acid, as well as L-glutamine and Zinc Carnosine to help with the leaky gut and oregano oil for dysbiosis. As well as foods that support these things too. But that was after a lot of reading and figuring out what felt right for me. I'm not taking other digestive enzymes, for example.
I totally know what you mean about not knowing who to rely on! That's why I spent so much time comparing different opinions to see what I thought was trustworthy. At the same time, we're all so different that all the different options have a grain of truth, but for different bodies and circumstances.
Ooh, white board and post-it notes sound great! I have an A4 notebook with all things health. I made various lists and notes as well which I put on the fridge.
If you want to follow your own food diet, you can do it, but better to seek medical expert advice is good for your body health condition. Regularly consuming natural food item is improving the body health very well.
hey there, I love this topic! I did Izabella Wentz AI protocol and that really helped me.
When doing it she suggests eliminating all the likely candidates for issues and reintroducing them slowly one at a time after a period of none. That uncovered a gluten/wheat non coeliac reaction and a dairy allergy for me, more than lactose, lactose free is a no no for me. Even free from ‘may contain’ are an issue reactions to maize starches and also emulsifiers. It’s been quite a journey 😅
Another read I would recommend is Dr William Davis Supergut.
I’ve also tried Zoe and personally l wouldn’t recommend it other than the first few weeks with the blood glucose monitor, learned loads with that, but their diet protocol left me bloated, tired and took months to ‘get back where I was’. I did learn I react badly to a sugar rush… so I’m all about flattening that curve now.
Glucose Goddess Jesse Inchaupe has a lovely book that’s easy to follow.
Lots of folks here have histamine issues, follow low FODMAPs too, I can’t go there, I’d literally have nothing left to eat but definitely notice occasionally.
Sulphites… in loads of sausages, olives, sauces, wine - make me feel hungover.
What do I eat, plenty of protein, low but definitely not no carbs, plenty of veggies and fruit. Paleo is probably the best description.
Dr Sarah Myhill’s website has loads on her Paleo Keto diet, the keto bit isn’t for me but some do well on her approach, it’s like keto lite.
This was going to be a quick short post but you got me on my favourite topic 🤣
Let us know how you get on and what you discover 🤗🌱
It is an interesting (and frustrating) topic. I was quite surprised that sugar was not more restricted by the dietician during my elimination diet. I am sure that tropical fruits don’t suit me. I do wonder if some of us are more naturally suited to the diet of our ancestors. I doubt v much that my Irish ancestors saw anything more exotic than a plum.
As long as I am allowed to keep my air fryer bacon, I think I can cope with anything. 💪
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