immunostimulant / bacterial lysate tablets?

[mantana]

I've recently learnt about "immunostimulant tablets" and I was wondering if this is anything for people with CLL.

I won't give any brand names, but in principle, they contain "Bacterial Lysate" (dead, broken down bacteria), in form of a tablet, for example:

Staphylococcus aureus

Streptococcus pyogenes

Streptococcus (viridans) oralis

Klebsiella pneumoniae

Klebsiella ozaenae

Haemophilus influenzae

Neisseria catarrhalis

Streptococcus pneumoniae

The lysate induces dendritic cells, T and B lymphocytes and IgA secretion, as well as the production of antibodies directed against administered bacterial antigens.

If you look at bacteria species above, some of them (Haemophilus influenzae, Streptococcus pneumoniae) are included in vaccinations recommended for us with CLL:

healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

Some science behind it:

frontiersin.org/articles/10...

Many clinical studies have been carried out to evaluate the immunostimulatory effect of bacterial lysates, assessed as beneficial effects in patients susceptible to respiratory tract infections (RTIs) as children, elderly or COPD patients.

(...) has shown good safety and tolerance in many studies with reduction in recurrences of respiratory infections in children and adults.

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

The bacterial lysate (...) reduces the number of acute episodes in patients with recurrent infections of the respiratory tract: The results of a double blind, placebo controlled, multicenter clinical trial

frontiersin.org/articles/10...

All in all, our results show that PBLs exert protection against S. pneumoniae using mechanisms distinctive from conjugate vaccine-induced protection, suggesting that these immunotherapies can be a valuable cost-effective complement for control of the burden of pneumococcal diseases.

Unfortunately I did not find anything when combining the search with CLL / leukemia.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator]

As I've said many times before, immune stimulants, where there is any scientific evidence that they may work, nearly always work by stimulating lymphocytes. Hence I was not surprised to find, with my emphasis, "Bacterial immunostimulants (ISs) containing bacterial lysate (OM-85 BV, LW 50020) or components of bacterial cells (ribosomal extracts) were shown to induce a non-specific response (i.e. intensification of phagocytosis) but also to orchestrate both cellular (B, T cell stimulation) and humoral responses (antibodies and proinflammatory cytokines production)."

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/190...

Given your search with CLL / leukemia didn't turn up anything, it's probably best left alone until research can show that this doesn't also stimulate CLL tumour growth .

Neil

[Vlaminck in reply to AussieNeil]

I have felt the same about supplement AHCC which, I believe, has been shown to have immune stimulating properties -- but doesn't that possibly mean more Bcells? Wish there were studies on these issues.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator in reply to Vlaminck]

AHCC apparently mainly stimulates NK and T cell lymphocytes, but some preparations of AHCC can include Beta Glucans, which is understandable, given AHCC is sourced from mushroom varieties. Strangely, I can't find any reputable mention of AHCC and CLL, with drugs.com giving a good overview of studies of its use:

drugs.com/npp/ahcc.html Some of the AHCC advertising makes claims about B lymphocyte stimulation.

Neil

[Vlaminck in reply to AussieNeil]

Too bad. Such a broad range of immune benefit for solid tumors. But feel we need to stay away with CLL. Don't want more lymphs, thank you. Wonder if anyone on here has been taking it and if so, results?

[LeoPa]

I wonder how this would be different from being vaccinated against those illnesses.

[Vlaminck in reply to LeoPa]

Would guess that vaccines would be pathogen specific rather than all bacteria, etc.

[LeoPa in reply to Vlaminck]

My understanding is that these are also pathogen specific they just include more types of bacteria against which they should immunize. So it's like many vaccines in one.

[mantana in reply to LeoPa]

One difference is that these bacterial lysate tablets stimulate our immune system over an extended period of time: 1 tablet daily for 30 days, then 30 days break, then again 1 tablet daily for 30 days.

This alone can make a huge difference for us with CLL (which comes in different subtypes) - however without the actual studies, we can just guess what really happens.

[LeoPa in reply to mantana]

I'm curious myself. I've been prescribed Broncho Vaxom for persistent cough a few months ago. It was 30 tablets. You take it for 10 days then you have a 20 day pause. Repeat three times. I'll have my bloods checked in a week. I'm curious about what they will show. And I was double vaccinated since my last blood check too. If there are any changes it's going to be hard to sort out what caused what. By the way the tablets helped nothing with the cough. Seems like it's some kind of allergy or perhaps a side effect of my prostate medication.

[Vlaminck in reply to LeoPa]

Then could this be the worse of two worlds -- NOT specific for CLL but enough to crank up our immune system the way the Covid vax's did, making more WBC and lymphs? Just wondering out loud.

[LeoPa in reply to Vlaminck]

What do you mean not specific for CLL? Vaccinations against pathogens aren't specific for CLL. And the rest is up in the air. If it boosts production of healthy lymphocytes that is not a problem. At least a flow cytometry test would be required to know which lymphocytes grew in number. And even if it is the cancer cells, how do we know they were just not flushed out of the nodes, hence perhaps a CT scan would be necessary to know if vaccines led to persistent node growth. I guess it's complicated.

[Vlaminck in reply to LeoPa]

Sorry if I used poor wording -- something not directed at CLL cancer B cells in one way or another, but instead hyping our WBC and lymphs ala vaccination but against -- what?

[LeoPa in reply to Vlaminck]

Against

Staphylococcus aureus

Streptococcus pyogenes

Streptococcus (viridans) oralis

Klebsiella pneumoniae

Klebsiella ozaenae

Haemophilus influenzae

Neisseria catarrhalis etc. as per the leaflet. These are not against CLL but against common infections.