since finding out I have gone hyper, I haven't been eating enough or as well as I usually do due to the awful anxiety symptoms and I wondered if anyone could recommend a decent multi-vitamin for someone like me with Hashi's; thought it might help in the short term on anything I am lacking.
Found this one and wondered if suitable prnt.sc/yryuDXWh0xPz or should I avoid due to certain stuff in it?
If not suitable, any other suggestions please
Multi vitamins are not generally recommended on the forum Jefner, as it’s much better to test key thyroid vitamin levels, share results and supplement if required to achieve optimal levels.
Although you are experiencing ’hyper like’ symptoms from having FT4 over range, this is not the same as hyperthyroidism.
Are you still reducing Levo to get FT4 within range? Like radd outlined in your last post, over range FT4 is not ideal.
For me, FT4 at the top of the range caused significant spikes in anxiety, palpitations and tremor (& other ‘hyper like’ symptoms) which went away when I got FT4 around 75-80% in the range.
alas my symptoms have never gone away ie. the severe anxiety and I really do not know my sweet spot in the range, but going over range nearly sent me over the edge I can assure you. Since my results being on 125mcg I tinkered with my Levo from the next day for a few days just to try and get my T4 down a little ie. Friday 25mcg..Saturday - nothing......Sunday 25mcg....Monday (this week) 100....Tuesday 100. felt mega rough after those two 100's so on Wednesday I had 25mcg but I thought that was enough tinkering and since Thursday this week I have been on 100, but looking at last year's results on 100 my T4 dropped right at the bottom of the range which is why I went back up to 125 which usually does put me quite high in the range but this time over. So I am now thinking 112mcg or alternate days of 100 and 125?
How long after tweaking your dose did your hyper symptoms dissipate?
As I’ve said before in your previous posts, low and slow changes are often essential for those of us with anxiety. I would adjust by 12.5mcg ( alternate days at first), then 12.5mcg daily. I found increasing/ decreasing by 25mcg Levo caused significant spikes in my anxiety levels. I’ve benefited from being more tortoise than hare
arrr so you have existing anxiety issues as well, that's interesting and extremely helpful in being able to speak with someone who has the same issues and how they tweak their dose. As I have messing for a week to try and get my T4 down a little and have been on 100 constant for 4 days now, you mean to now go up to 112mcg but alternate days initially before moving up to 112mcg every day. How long should I do the alternate days before moving up to 112 properly?
If you find reducing to 100mcg too much for your system, I would try alternate days of 112.5/ 125mcg to start and once you can tolerate this, reduce to 112.5mcg daily. I can’t say how long this might take you Jefner, as we are all different. Go easy on yourself & know that you will gradually feel better over time…. Getting to your sweet spot (where you feel most well) may take several months.
it's so difficult to know tbh especially after the erratic dosing I have done the last 10 days to try and get the excess T4 down a little before restarting on a lower dose of my original 125. As I said, at this point I have been back on 100 (from original 125) since Thursday (4 days dose now) so now wondering how many more days to stay on 100 before I introduce 12.5mcg and do that alternate days as you suggested before finally moving onto 112mcg?
You could always try alternate days of 100/ 112.5 if you think you can be consistent with this dose. Consistency is key; make a plan of action and try hard to stick to it. Making small changes over time will help with your anxiety levels Jefner.
Whatever you decide just try to stick with it for a few weeks.
Looking at my results last year only being on 100 put me right at the bottom of the range so a consistent alternating between 100/112 dose may probably still put me too low in the range which is why I was thinking a consistent dose of 112mcg could be a better dose for me as 100 puts me right at the bottom and 125 right at the top and over.
Ok, try 112.5mcg daily for 6-8 weeks and then recheck levels. Good luck!
before I titrate up to that consistent dose, in the meantime being on 100 solidly for the last 4 days, and as you said low and slow, would it be ok to now alternate between 100/112 for a week before I move up to 112 or is only 4 days not long enough before I make that tweak?
Buddy195 thank you so much for your help
Jefner,
The forum doesn’t advocate multivits because they don’t contain enough to address deficiencies, and the larger amounts often have to be taken individually to avoid interactions.
However, smaller amounts can be taken all together (like in foods), and once my nutrient levels optimised by taking copious supplements, I now manage to maintain these levels with a multivit without iron, evidenced by an annual WellWoman test.
Your pills ingredients looks similar to mine with lots of lovely beneficial extras, but I would caution against the iodine if you have any thyroid gland left, as it could ramp up gland activity and possibly increase your anxiety. My thyroid gland is completely atrophied.
Vital Nutrients make a multivitamin supplement called ‘Multi-Nutrients (No Iron or Iodine)’. I myself would require extra Vit D with this one but that would still be only two daily pills 😃. Have you had vitamin levels tested lately? Sadly it is quite usual for Hashi peeps to initially suffer nutritional deficiencies because of the effects on the gut.
Hi radd
What’s the multivit that maintains optimal levels for you
Noelnoel,
'Seeking Health Multivitamin One MF' with a separate Vit D + K2 . This has no vitamin C, magnesium, calcium or iron and only methyl-free forms as I was getting jittery.
Folate comes in folinic acid form and B12 is in hydroxocobalamin and adenosylcobalamin. These form are still readily converted into methylated but with slower delivery as I was a finding straight methylated a bit harsh.
However am tempted to try the one I suggested to Jefner with methylated again (as it's a while since I tried), although it is more pricey.
I wonder whether my current B complex that I have been on for years makes me jittery more, without realising. Do you think it might be time for a change? Taking into account your anxiety issues as wel I read that too much Niacin can make you more anxious and I often wondered if the 95mg in mine isn't helping, plus on every test my B12 is always over range and dosage in mine is 50mcg .
My former FD when I had a one-off consult with her last year but they are far too expensive. I need the methyl ones apparently because I am mthr and fancy a change but so there is so much to read and compare
amritanutrition.co.uk/produ...
Because of the higher Biotin, B12 and Niacin in my current B complex, I was wondering whether to change to this one biocare.co.uk/methyl-b-comp...
One currently on prnt.sc/myqcOVlwhrSn.
Hi there - a bit like the plant and thyroid scenario - a plant that needs water will wilt and a plant that is overwatered will wilt - a thyroid gland underactive and struggling you will lose hair etc and thyroid that is over medicated you will lose your hair - if you continue to take Vitamin B for a long period you may not need it any longer and the very same symptoms you took it for will return when you have reached optimum levels - the same with Vitamin C if you take Vitamin C at too high a dose not only do you reach bowel tolerance but Vitamin C can turn to adrenaline and make you very jittery. I once recommended a colleague take Vitamin B complex because she was suffering so with anxiety etc. and they came to me and said how they now felt amazing and thanked me - however 3 months down the line they were in a state again - crying and over anxious - it was then I realised that once you have reached the optimum levels you will revert back as the kidneys/adrenals have reached tolerance levels. Easy does it - I find the lower doses just keep you ticking over nicely without overloading the system which lets be honest are the kidneys and liver !
Keen to streamline my breadbin of supplements... the Seeking Health Multivitamin One MF that I could find contained 100mcg Iodine are you suggesting that's ok if you know your thyroid has atrophied?
turmericandhoney.co.uk/prod...?
Yes E, but this is only my own theory having discussed with one endo and one nutritionist/hormone specialist. Main reasoning being iodine is mostly concentrated in the thyroid gland but where dietary intake is adequate it is still only 10% or less actually taken up by the thyroid gland. The rest (minus a teeny weeny bit found in breasts, cervix, eyes, saliva glands, gastric mucosa, etc) is excreted via urine and a minute bit in poo. (Hence the urine testing to assess iodine levels).
Without a thyroid gland the iodine-trapping mechanisms are lost and we don’t need these because thyroid hormone meds replace the iodine that is then recycled through normal measures. Therefore, although our intake of iodine would now be minimal if a small excess was taken it would simply be excreted.
TSH is a major influencer of the thyroid:serum iodine ratio but after medicating many have a low/suppressed TSH and it is interesting to read that even though thyroid gland removal/destruction must be hugely disruptive to the body, it remains able to supply tissues requiring iodine with the exact amount and retain more for events such as breastfeeding.
Generally, many grams of iodine must be ingested to cause actual toxicity. The well known troubles begin when there is thyroid living tissue combined with either an excess or deficiency of iodine both risking an inadequate supply of thyroid hormones, and this window is quite narrow, and narrower still for those more vulnerable to alterations due to underlying thyroid autoimmune conditions.
As a side thought we know of iodines antiseptic properties but I recently read it plays a significant role in immune function and maybe this is why thyroid antibodies reduce for many Hashi sufferers once they become optimally replaced, as opposed to or in conjunction with taming unwanted thyroid activity.
There’s quite a bit on horror on the forum surrounding iodine but it’s about keeping ideas in perspective because this avenue docent seem to have been explored a lot. I must say being completely thyroid-less I have felt no difference taking iodine.
However, this supplement was chosen for me some years back and the science and choice has progressed since. The other supplement I mentioned doesn’t contain iodine so might be the more prudent choice now and certainly safer for members with partial gland left.
Thanks radd... all makes perfect sense 😅
I don't actually know the state of my thyroid 🤷♀️
I only know mine because I had salivary glands scanned some years ago and they pointed out my thyroid gland looked like a shrivelled up petit pois! 😳
I then had an MRI and the same was commented on. I don't think they realise the extent of autoimmune disease until the glaring evidence is shown to them.
Thank you radd but a bit of a dilemma then as I like the sound of the seeking health one because I prefer adeno to methyl (although this has both) but it contains iodine, which I’m fearful of because I believe it triggered my Hashi
What’s the one you recommmeded to jefner please?
I was just compiling my latest iHerb order and toying with this one but hasn't it got an excessive amount of Vit A? uk.iherb.com/pr/vital-nutri...
80% of the vitamin A is as beta carotene - which needs to be converted to become vitamin A!
We are not advised to avoid carrots, for one obvious example, on the basis of their beta carotene content. Unless we consume so much our skin goes orange.
So does this make it an acceptable level for a daily supplement? Need a carrot calculator 😏
I'm not sure I like the zinc, copper ratio either and just realized a dose is 3 capsules!
Think I shall stick with the flexibility of separates
In my view, you can more or less ignore beta carotene content.
It can provide some vitamin A - if you can convert it. Something impaired in hypothyroidism. Beta carotene should never be referred to as vitamin A (in my view). OK to point out that it can supply a vitamin A precursor - provitamin A - but that is very different.
(I'd actually go further and issue an edict on this topic which would require proper identification of what is in products - across labelling, sales, advertising, everything.)
Vitamin A and Carotenoids
Fact Sheet for Health Professionals
low levels of iron, b12, folate and vitamin D can all cause anxiety, I assumed it was related to my thyroid for a while, but after checking my vitamin and mineral levels, I realised I was low on certain things…. And the anxiety improved when I raised my levels, for me it was iron and b12 I was low on
Hi there - as someone who has researched and studied nutrition for over 55 years - I have found it a fascinating science but also one that gets grabbed by 'fads' - I have taken a look at your link and the product in my opinion contains far too much zinc and iodine - you do not need iodine with Hashi's as it can cause further inflammation - the latest fad in my opinion is that the whole world is short of iodine - that is not the case for thyroid inflammation. The company I now use is one that has taken out iodine - iron - and other items that various medical conditions cannot tolerate.
naturesbest.co.uk/multivita...
the link below take you to a product that does not contain iodine or iron - this company is part of the 'professional' supplement company Lamberts. Every person is different sometimes you can buy a product and it doesn't agree with you but there again you might feel much better - it depends on what you are deficient in and without testing which is too expensive
Hope this helps.
Shame they don't use P-5-P form of B6 😕
Apparently it hasn't been tested on humans to that great extent so perhaps that's why NB are just using the B6.
It's odd isn't it that using the form that has been proven to block up take in some is ok 🤷♀️
I have no idea perhaps you need to take it up with NB !
I agree, very curious indeed but actually not that strange at all because I’d put money on it that the form they’ve used is the cheaper form. It’s also folic acid instead of folate and neither does it state which type of cobalamin it is. That would be enough for me to steer well clear of it
Zinc and vitamin D - fantastic aid to decent sleep (at last)
Best all round multi- vitamin
Any advice on which multi-vitamin/mineral supplement to take?
Finding a decent endocrinologist
Hashi's or not.
